College Success for Students: Accommodations & Independence with Tara Williams

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What? We are officially recording our penultimate episode, next or last episode of the season.

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I don't know what that is. Is that a sports term? Who knows?

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Yeah. Hello, and welcome to the Balancing Act podcast. I am Jamie Wonko here with Joe.

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Period. Vitaly. Vitaly. That's me. Hello. Hello. How are you,

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Mr. Vitaly? It's Junibration. You know, we're going through it.

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You know, we're doing this one a little. Junibrate, good times.

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Come on. We're actually doing this one a little different. Normally,

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we literally organically do our opening in the beginning, and then we bring

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out our guests. But after recording our episode, we're jumping back into it.

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This might be a new trend for us. This might be a new trend for us.

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We wanted to tell you guys, for those listeners who have high school age kids,

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we think this would be a very valuable episode for you to grab your kids and listen with them.

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And the reason why is because our guest, Tara Williams, that we're going to

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bring in in just a minute, really talks a lot about the struggles of executive

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function and organizing and schedules that late high school,

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early college students will face.

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And sometimes, like Jamie and I had just mentioned, and I've joked about before,

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as we become older and our children get older, we as parents don't know anything anymore.

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So yeah and that's a normal part of development what I'm going to do is I'm

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going to say hey Drew want to go get ice cream,

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Come on. And then we're going to listen to this episode in the car together.

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Yeah. And we'll go, I'll pause it.

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We'll go inside. We'll get the ice cream. Then we'll come back in the car.

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We'll eat it in the car while finishing.

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It's like you, from start to finish, her, Tara's advice and tips,

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tools, systems, what to do, what not to do, how to navigate the college landscape

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from a college professor

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and someone who has written a book

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on how to do it.

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She is a wealth of information and everyone needs to listen.

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And your kids do too. Absolutely. So one quick request for you,

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Jane, if you could, I need you to also take my children for ice cream because

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there's no way they'll do that with me. They would go with you though and then

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they would be forced to listen to the episode with you.

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Absolutely. Yeah, let's do that. I got a little discount card recently.

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So discounts and buy one, get one. I did, yeah. Where?

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Carvel. Nasto's? Oh, Carvel. I got that one too. Nasto's also has a percent off.

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I need that card. Yeah, it's really sweet. Wilbur Shelly. I mean,

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you know, local yokels and stuff, but it's really good stuff. Yeah.

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Well, before we get into bringing in our guests, don't forget our season three

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is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Teacher's Insurance Plan.

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Make sure you check out their website, which is tagged in our episode below.

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Teacher's Insurance Plan, auto insurance that brings exclusive educator savings

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and exceptional customer care to New Jersey and New Jersey and Pennsylvania

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educational employees.

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So, Jane, are we ready? Let's jump back into the episode. We hope you guys really

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enjoy the talk today with Tara Williams. Check it out. Yes.

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Okay. Well, hey, Tara Williams. What's up, West Coast? First of all,

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I really hope you guys are watching this on YouTube because she has four or

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any other streaming platform that has video.

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She has four epic paintings behind her of like art of the Golden Girls.

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And they are amazing. And I love everything about them.

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It's my my wife will sometimes watch the show like when we're in bed,

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like, you know, going to sleep and I'll wake up to like multiple episodes of,

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Nick at Night Golden Girls. So, Tara, welcome. So good to have you. Nice to meet you.

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Thank you. So nice to meet you guys. And thanks so much for having me today.

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Yeah, Tara, thank you so much for joining us.

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Can you give us a little bit of information about your background or area of specialty?

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Sure. So I have a PhD in synthetic and organic chemistry from the University of Sussex.

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And I am currently a tenured professor at College of the Canyons in Santa Clarita, California.

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I've been there 10 years and I've had my own company working with neurodivergent

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students for the last 11 years here in Los Angeles area.

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Excellent. So what does some of your work with neurodivergent students look

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like or children look like?

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So we work with on the sort of tough transitions. I started out working on the

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transition at college, as that seems to be a really hard transition for students.

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And then we sort of started getting calls more and more from parents who had

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students who are struggling with the transition from middle to high school,

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and now even from elementary to middle school.

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And how do we work on those transitions and to sort of make them easier?

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And I would say from early intervention, we're getting a lot more students that,

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have autism or AUHD, along with most of the students that we work with that have ADHD.

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Wow. So I got to ask here, you said your degree was at what again?

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Synthetic and organic chemistry. Okay. So how does one get to that, to this?

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Bird, walk me through that.

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Sure. I know it's a common question, right? Yeah. It's a little different from

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your educational background to what it is you're actually doing on the day-to-day.

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Yeah, I'm a first generation student.

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So when I was in my undergrad at Florida State for chemistry,

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they were like, hey, Tara, you can either get a master's in like criminology

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and pay a lot of money for it, or you can get a PhD for free.

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If you get into graduate school as a chemist, me never knowing I had to find

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something no one else has ever done in the world and publish it.

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So, very naive, very naive.

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But as part of that, you get a stipend, and you are put in the classroom sort of your first day.

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So, I was a TA at 23 years old when I started my PhD right out of my undergrad. So...

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From there, I had never heard of things like accommodations.

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I had never, you know, been in front of the classroom with other students.

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And I really learned that students really need different things depending on the student, right?

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That students learn very differently. And especially in a field of STEM where

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you're telling people that something exists that they can't see,

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right? Like, we have Adams, believe us, right?

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So I really learned about accommodations and about students and the different

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learning needs and how to think about things visually versus auditory versus

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how can we get them to hold things in their hands, right?

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Like, how can we show them what molecules are? Things like that.

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And then I started teaching out of my PhD at a school in Florida called Rollins College.

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And I was like wow like I now I'm getting the accommodations paperwork and I'm

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getting to have more conversations with students about how this works and what

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they need in the classroom and what exactly do these accommodations

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stand for for them and on paper and from there I really enjoyed learning about

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executive functioning and different kinds of needs and how to be able to help

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students with that and then it just kind of came naturally I started

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working consulting on the side with college students with autism and ADHD.

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And from there, it just kind of grew.

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So, yeah, as you know, as we've talked about, and, you know,

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our listeners know that Jamie and I have children that are about to start their

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first semester this coming fall away at college,

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which is both exciting and frightening at the exact same time,

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I think, for us and for them.

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So I'd love to talk with you, and I think this will definitely be a conversation

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that's going to resonate with our listeners and the people that follow our show.

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So one of these, you know, we kind of come up with some questions that we're

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going to talk about beforehand. But one of these I really like want to go verbatim,

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like how can parents support their student, their child without becoming the

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college, quote unquote, project manager?

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Because now we have to relinquish that control. We're like, we're not checking

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in on grades. We're not looking at, you know, the portal every day to see what they're handing in.

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How do you suggest parents navigate those very murky waters?

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Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is a lot of parents don't relinquish that

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control and still want to be on the portal and want to do these things without thinking about how,

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FERPA is now basically saying your student has to sign off for you to be able to access those things.

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And then if you have a student that needs accommodations or that's had an IEP,

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504, then I would say first thing first, make sure they're signing up for their

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accommodations in the summer before.

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Like those, those offices, if

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you wait until August, they are going to be booked until October, right?

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So the first thing I always tell parents is please make sure that they are looking

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at that once they know where they're going to school.

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Even if you're on vacation, a lot of times we can do it on Zoom now,

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you know, make sure that your paperwork is up to date so that if there's any

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issue, if there needs to be further testing, we know that in advance.

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And I would say, yeah, and really prepare for the meeting, right?

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Because a lot of accommodations, I think parents are sort of unaware that some

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of the things they were given in a high school or private high school,

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whatever the situation is, may not be what they're offered in college, right?

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Like I meet some students who have gone to like a school for students with ADHD

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and they haven't taken a test in a few years.

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That's not the way it's going to be once you get to college,

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right? That's a professorial discretion issue.

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Um or maybe they've always been allowed to use a note card on math test that's discretion sometimes

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depending on the paperwork so i would say making sure that that getting set

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up for that meeting having your paperwork having all that ready is the first

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thing to think about in the summer.

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Um i would also think about registration as a lot of schools like i remember

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when i was in college they helped us register like i remember going to my orientation

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in april and they helped us register so that like I there was we were in a room on a computer

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right but someone was helping us there where a lot of schools will sort of send a video

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and if you have a student that has executive functioning issues neurodivergent

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or not like watching a video maybe they don't even know they have an email,

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maybe they haven't gotten in their email maybe they don't know how to use the

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system um so making sure that they're staying on top of all of that just to

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be able to make sure that there aren't issues and looking at registration right

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having that conversation with your student,

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Like they're going to have so much more time now than they've ever had.

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Right. Like I think parents think it's a full time job that be in school,

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which it is, but not the class part.

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Right. Like they're going to maybe have class, let's say 20,

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you know, 15 to 20 hours per week.

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The rest of the time is theirs to be able to manage. But a lot of students,

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they think they've always gone to school Monday through Friday.

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So they're like, I'm going to put all my classes on Tuesday and Thursday.

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Right. And so then they're in class from 8 to 5, not thinking about when am

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I going to have time to study in between, work on anything, eat.

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Right? Am I going to get up from an 8 a.m. class?

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So these are kind of things that we like to spread throughout.

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Or if you have a class at 8 a.m., do you want to take one at 8 p.m.? It's a very long day.

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Or if you get out at 10 p.m. the night before, are you going to want to go at 8, right?

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So just thinking about those things, I would say, are some main indicators.

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And understanding this is going to be, as a parent, a huge social change, right?

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If kids are going off to college, maybe they've always been in their own room

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and now they're sharing with two, maybe three other people in a room,

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in a space, right? Maybe that room is with their safe space.

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It's where they studied and now maybe that's not what's going to happen.

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Socially, maybe they're going to be in different social groups or they've gone

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to a school where they've always had friends or they're going to a college where

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they don't know anybody, which is exciting sometimes, right?

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Like I'm from a small town, I could not wait to leave.

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But it's also scary when you go somewhere.

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So I think having talks about the preparation of how we're going to get to college,

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how we're going to do that, what we need.

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If you are on some kind of medication for neurodivergence or any kind of medication,

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do you have a plan on how you're going to get that medication?

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What does that look like?

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You know, like things that maybe you've always assisted with that makes sense

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that parents to assist with, but what does that look like as you go?

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Like, what are the plans? And that's just to get to day one, right?

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From there, there's a whole nother list of things to do. But I would also say

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during this time and preparation, teaching them there,

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You're the structured support. So you can help them make that appointment,

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maybe even go to the appointment with them if they want you to for the Office

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of Accessibility, or help them with registration if you want,

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to be there, but maybe let them do it on their own, guide them in the process, because when,

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they get there, you're not going to be able to guide in that same way.

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Yeah. The talk we had a couple of days ago here was, you know,

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as now they're like turning 18 or approaching 18,

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you know, what does it look like as far as like things that they're responsible

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for on their own versus like some things that we are doing together?

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And so just to circle back to what you said about FERPA and the law,

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you know, of portals and invitations, I was for sure on the side of like.

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I'm paying, so I'm invited, right? And like that's, and period, right?

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Which we don't really have like a whole lot. There was no, it was like,

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yeah, sure, of course. There wasn't any like back and forth about that.

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But at the same time, you know, if we have a meeting or there's something,

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I've been trying to kind of, he has had a couple of virtual meetings for college so far.

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And I'm trying to sit like off screen at the table on the other side just to

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kind of like give that feeling of like, I'm here, but I'm not speaking for you.

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And you have to, you know, you have to learn how to like navigate all of that,

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which is, it's a very big transition.

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And I think my son the other day, like what he was articulating was like,

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but what if I have to go to the doctor and I don't want to go by myself?

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And it was like a real genuine, I said, you never have to do anything.

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You know, that's what we are. That's why we're here as a family.

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Is it the same way that I take your father? If he doesn't want to go and sit

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in a doctor's office alone, is the same way that like we would never have you do that. So I do.

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It's like that difference between, yes, you need to be responsible.

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Yes, you need to take care of yourself. But at the same time,

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like none of us, myself or my husband included, are living like.

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By ourselves doing everything by you know so i don't you know it's like you

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you have to do it but also like we'll always be in your corner kind of for sure

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and maybe once you go with him the first time and he'll be like oh i don't need

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you to go anymore mom or maybe it's something more serious and we all want our parents to be there

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i tell my um i always tell the story of i went to florida state from a very small town in florida

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and this is way before smartphones like the year 2000 i mean i went to college and i lost my car,

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uh at the stadium because i had to go to the registrar's office.

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And I called my mom and she's like, okay, well, what can we do?

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Because I can't drive there. You're five hours away.

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So who do we look for? What can we do? And so she was there for me in that structured

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support, but she knew she couldn't do it for me.

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But she definitely helped me while I was panicking to be able to ask like,

00:16:10.390 --> 00:16:12.188
hey, I don't know what to do in this situation.

00:16:12.780 --> 00:16:18.417
And I think a lot of things have changed even in those 26 years now of.

00:16:19.252 --> 00:16:22.100
You know there's a we as parents there's been a lot more

00:16:22.420 --> 00:16:25.900
um support like i was talking to someone the other day right like when we were

00:16:25.900 --> 00:16:29.080
going to miss school when we were younger we would just go to the teacher probably

00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.658
and be like hey i'm going to be on vacation next week like what should i do

00:16:31.948 --> 00:16:35.332
but now you've got google classroom and portals and emails and all these things

00:16:35.628 --> 00:16:39.190
that i think it's a lot easier for the parents to be involved than when we were

00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:40.922
younger and it would just happen naturally

00:16:41.306 --> 00:16:45.240
so i think that structured support of you supporting them as they're going through

00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.800
this transition because the emotional support to me, the academic support is

00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:52.560
important, but the emotional support wraps around all of that and that big transition.

00:16:52.827 --> 00:16:55.672
Yeah, absolutely. That's something we've talked about too, is like,

00:16:56.113 --> 00:16:59.670
you know, we're, we're the parents that, you know, of the generation of all

00:16:59.670 --> 00:17:01.668
the things you got to do all the things.

00:17:02.046 --> 00:17:05.620
Um, and if you're not doing all the things all the time, doing all the things,

00:17:05.620 --> 00:17:07.926
then you're not a good parent.

00:17:08.292 --> 00:17:13.350
Like that's not how we think, but like society views people and views parents

00:17:13.350 --> 00:17:15.693
that way in, in, in a, variety of different ways.

00:17:16.634 --> 00:17:20.429
Whether it be taking part in parent-teacher organizations or school stuff that

00:17:20.429 --> 00:17:22.543
you need to be a part of. If you're not all in,

00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:28.339
then you don't care about your child. But that's far from the truth.

00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:33.379
Sometimes your work schedule or your family schedule doesn't allow you to be

00:17:33.379 --> 00:17:35.079
involved in all of those things.

00:17:35.499 --> 00:17:39.699
And Jamie's also talked about, when she was little, the folder.

00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:43.129
The folder would come home and everything that the parent needed to know was

00:17:43.129 --> 00:17:45.163
in the folder. And I had the folder.

00:17:48.479 --> 00:17:52.639
I romanticize about the folder. I really do. I think of it and I think,

00:17:52.639 --> 00:17:55.066
oh gosh, that must have been amazing. It was so simple.

00:17:55.861 --> 00:17:59.569
Well, yeah. I mean, I talk to parents still about that because still the folder

00:17:59.569 --> 00:18:01.341
is really popular in elementary school.

00:18:01.719 --> 00:18:06.089
And there's a packet of work that's due on Mondays, right? But now then that

00:18:06.089 --> 00:18:09.769
transition to middle school becomes difficult. And oftentimes if you have a

00:18:09.769 --> 00:18:13.422
neurodivergent student, you probably have a neurodivergent parent, like diagnosed or not.

00:18:13.765 --> 00:18:16.749
And so they're also like, oh, my God, none of us knows the password.

00:18:16.749 --> 00:18:19.099
And how do we get our work on the weekend? And then there's,

00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:21.679
you know, the parent feels like, well, I'm still responsible because,

00:18:21.679 --> 00:18:23.760
you know, of course you are. They're in middle school. Right.

00:18:23.870 --> 00:18:28.139
So I think it is like with technology, it's great in a lot of ways,

00:18:28.139 --> 00:18:31.939
but it's also made things very difficult for parents and students.

00:18:31.939 --> 00:18:36.659
And the idea that your student graduates in May or June and then two months

00:18:36.659 --> 00:18:40.169
later, you guys are both different human beings. Right. Like you're the same

00:18:40.169 --> 00:18:43.124
human being you were two months ago. So how do you balance that,

00:18:43.473 --> 00:18:44.645
you know, two months later?

00:18:45.011 --> 00:18:50.679
Yeah. And even when you say, what would you say is aside from time management,

00:18:50.679 --> 00:18:54.020
which I would imagine, you know, the high school structure day to day,

00:18:54.699 --> 00:19:01.671
would you say is one of the greatest challenges for college students in their first semester?

00:19:02.564 --> 00:19:07.719
Self-advocation, wherever that lies. Does that lie with a roommate?

00:19:08.143 --> 00:19:10.348
Does that lie? I mean, I'm part of all these Facebook groups.

00:19:10.348 --> 00:19:13.778
I mean, I have a business. I work with college students. I like to obviously

00:19:13.778 --> 00:19:15.608
offer services, but to see what's going on.

00:19:15.922 --> 00:19:19.387
And there are so many parents who are trying to deal with dorm issues.

00:19:19.637 --> 00:19:21.860
What do you do if their roommate doesn't clean up?

00:19:22.203 --> 00:19:24.308
What do we do with this? Do I move them out?

00:19:24.925 --> 00:19:28.688
Because I think the student, I'm sure, I know that I did this with my mom,

00:19:28.688 --> 00:19:30.328
would call and complain about my roommates.

00:19:31.032 --> 00:19:34.364
But then she'd be like, well, you've got to figure it out, right?

00:19:34.527 --> 00:19:37.284
Like if you have to keep cleaning up after then, then it's only for a semester

00:19:37.586 --> 00:19:41.218
or whatever it is. Like you have to do what makes life better for you.

00:19:42.228 --> 00:19:46.268
But for me, like that is a lifelong contract, right? Like most of us now,

00:19:47.008 --> 00:19:50.379
when we leave college, we're going to be living with roommates.

00:19:50.704 --> 00:19:54.378
So how do you learn to have those talks with people? And more importantly,

00:19:54.378 --> 00:19:56.596
how do you learn how to have those talks with your professor?

00:19:57.107 --> 00:20:01.508
Because, or with a registrar or with a doctor or whatever needs to happen,

00:20:01.508 --> 00:20:06.633
like that self-advocation, all of us have help until we're 18 on how to do those things.

00:20:07.328 --> 00:20:10.808
But I would say that's the biggest issue because when you miss an assignment,

00:20:10.808 --> 00:20:13.401
you have to now go to the professor or send an email and be like,

00:20:14.086 --> 00:20:18.115
hey, I missed this. I messed up. I'm taking accountability. What do I do to fix it?

00:20:18.417 --> 00:20:22.661
If it's a zero, I totally, I will accept it. But can I turn it in for you to

00:20:22.661 --> 00:20:26.781
look at it? Or can I, you know what I'm saying? Like, how do I still advocate,

00:20:26.781 --> 00:20:28.181
but also accountability?

00:20:28.436 --> 00:20:32.442
As a professor, I think accountability gives me a hundred percent more,

00:20:32.912 --> 00:20:38.205
more chance of giving you another chance if it's not blamed on me,

00:20:38.704 --> 00:20:41.769
right? If it's, hey, I did this and can you help me?

00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:45.775
And I would say 90% of professors are like, yes, of course I will help you.

00:20:45.885 --> 00:20:49.881
Or if you don't understand something, come to my office hours or whatever it

00:20:49.881 --> 00:20:52.901
is. Like I always tell my students, I love it that you go to the learning center,

00:20:52.901 --> 00:20:54.836
but no one knows more of what I want than me.

00:20:55.341 --> 00:20:58.951
So, and if you wait till the end of the semester, which always happens after

00:20:58.951 --> 00:21:01.895
I've submitted grades to tell me everything that happened, I can't change it.

00:21:02.475 --> 00:21:05.751
But if you're having a problem in week two or three, or you even go to your

00:21:05.751 --> 00:21:10.091
professor in week one and say, you know, Hey, this is what I struggle with.

00:21:10.091 --> 00:21:14.741
Like, how do I do best in your class and we know who you are that helps every single time,

00:21:15.316 --> 00:21:20.011
and and even like if you don't struggle with anything right which is,

00:21:20.551 --> 00:21:25.911
rare um you should still go to office hours introduce i'm telling my kids like

00:21:25.911 --> 00:21:30.258
introduce yourself go even if it's a two-minute conversation go and say hey

00:21:30.653 --> 00:21:35.413
you know i'm just starting you know freshman first semester just introducing myself high.

00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:38.584
You know, have a conversation, talk to them. You never know,

00:21:38.584 --> 00:21:42.034
you might have something in common, like create a human relationship,

00:21:42.034 --> 00:21:44.617
use words like those are all good things to do.

00:21:45.216 --> 00:21:48.862
Even if you get an A on your test, you probably missed something. Come talk to me about it.

00:21:49.221 --> 00:21:53.274
Tell me what you missed. Tell me or like I see students who get their first

00:21:53.274 --> 00:21:56.164
test grade back and they maybe they've always gotten A's. They now have a C

00:21:56.164 --> 00:21:59.534
on their first test. They are very disappointed and I can see it in their face

00:21:59.534 --> 00:22:01.505
and it makes me sad. Right. Because I care about them.

00:22:01.783 --> 00:22:05.704
So my first thing is like, you know, trying to get wait till I can kind of talk

00:22:05.704 --> 00:22:07.934
to them and just be like, hey, why don't you stay for a minute after and let's

00:22:07.934 --> 00:22:11.350
just talk about it and like how you can do better next time and more.

00:22:11.983 --> 00:22:14.904
Like I tell all my students, hey, we're all going to fail at something.

00:22:15.244 --> 00:22:18.254
I'm sure even you guys remember the worst grade you ever got.

00:22:18.254 --> 00:22:21.704
I do more than I do the best grade I ever got, because then you have to figure

00:22:21.704 --> 00:22:22.839
out how to come back from that.

00:22:23.042 --> 00:22:26.574
So the coming back is so much more important than how you did on something.

00:22:26.574 --> 00:22:29.834
Right. We only learn from I don't want to say a mistake. Right.

00:22:29.834 --> 00:22:32.648
But we learn when things maybe aren't going great.

00:22:33.334 --> 00:22:39.278
Yeah, I famously, the only D I ever got on my report card was in the fourth

00:22:39.278 --> 00:22:42.298
grade in handwriting when they used to do cursive writing.

00:22:42.298 --> 00:22:48.808
And it is well-deserved. And I just joked today with my wife.

00:22:48.808 --> 00:22:54.068
We were on a call and I was like, yeah. And I miss those questions because I'm

00:22:54.068 --> 00:22:57.868
not allowed to fill out any paperwork because I have the handwriting of a kidnapper

00:22:57.868 --> 00:23:02.090
writing a ransom note. Like, it's just awful. So, yeah.

00:23:02.718 --> 00:23:05.840
I got, I've gotten a 20 on a quiz before on organic chemistry.

00:23:06.043 --> 00:23:08.400
And yeah, it was a hard, it was a hard pill to swallow.

00:23:08.707 --> 00:23:12.528
Right. But I feel like that's, I still give quizzes in my classes because that's

00:23:12.528 --> 00:23:15.278
a way to tell you they're low stakes, low points, but you know,

00:23:15.618 --> 00:23:18.958
I don't understand this rather than waiting until a test and being like,

00:23:18.958 --> 00:23:21.438
and students have a way of procrastinating.

00:23:21.438 --> 00:23:24.758
If I don't give any assignments for four weeks, then that's a rude awakening.

00:23:25.112 --> 00:23:29.019
Right. So using office hours, if they, if your professors only have a test,

00:23:29.425 --> 00:23:32.488
um, you know, once a month or a midterm, whatever we call it,

00:23:32.488 --> 00:23:34.958
go see your professors and be like, I've been working on the homework problems.

00:23:34.958 --> 00:23:37.978
Can you tell me if I'm on the right, you know, on the right track so that we're

00:23:37.978 --> 00:23:41.578
not failing a major assignment and then you're feeling all kinds of things and

00:23:41.578 --> 00:23:43.629
you're now moving uphill. Hmm.

00:23:44.424 --> 00:23:47.699
That's good. That's very good advice. Have you ever thought,

00:23:47.699 --> 00:23:50.758
I work in education. Why is finding a job so weirdly hard?

00:23:51.008 --> 00:23:54.529
Yeah, scrolling through random job boards where half the listings don't even

00:23:54.529 --> 00:23:56.366
make sense is not the vibe.

00:23:56.540 --> 00:23:59.738
That's why njschooljobs.com actually makes sense.

00:24:00.104 --> 00:24:03.459
It's a job board built specifically for New Jersey schools, public,

00:24:03.459 --> 00:24:07.069
private, charter, and parochial. Teachers, administrators, counselors,

00:24:07.069 --> 00:24:10.639
support staff, coaching opportunities. If your job involves a bell schedule,

00:24:10.639 --> 00:24:13.316
this site's for you. It's free for job seekers.

00:24:13.595 --> 00:24:17.199
You can upload your resume, set job alerts, and apply without jumping through

00:24:17.199 --> 00:24:21.259
hoops. Schools across New Jersey actively use njschooljobs.com,

00:24:21.259 --> 00:24:23.051
so these are real current openings.

00:24:23.214 --> 00:24:27.389
They also host virtual job fairs, where you can connect with multiple districts

00:24:27.389 --> 00:24:29.518
online. No driving all over the state.

00:24:29.884 --> 00:24:33.924
Those are coming up soon, so check the link in our episode description to register.

00:24:34.272 --> 00:24:37.030
Head to njschooljobs.com.

00:24:39.334 --> 00:24:43.009
Hey teacher besties i'm andrea forcomb and i am so excited to share with you

00:24:43.009 --> 00:24:45.429
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00:24:45.749 --> 00:24:50.309
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00:24:55.286 --> 00:24:58.409
because if there is a way that you can screw up i've probably done it

00:24:58.758 --> 00:25:02.399
it also has advice on how to build trust with families how to manage grading

00:25:02.399 --> 00:25:04.099
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00:25:04.099 --> 00:25:07.094
everything else that they never went over in your teacher prep program.

00:25:07.529 --> 00:25:11.436
They Never Taught Us That is available everywhere right now. Yeah, I also,

00:25:12.974 --> 00:25:17.508
was wondering from your perspective as students are, you know,

00:25:17.775 --> 00:25:19.841
working to build independence,

00:25:21.078 --> 00:25:25.269
and work out on their college campuses, like you said something very interesting

00:25:25.269 --> 00:25:28.862
about when you were talking about the Facebook groups about the roommate thing.

00:25:29.472 --> 00:25:32.984
And you said something like the parents said, oh, should I move them out?

00:25:35.375 --> 00:25:38.385
And I mean, it shouldn't be the parent that's moving them out.

00:25:38.385 --> 00:25:41.425
It should be a conversation between the kid and, hey, did you talk to your roommate?

00:25:41.425 --> 00:25:45.365
Did you have a conversation about it? Did you did you go to your RA and talk

00:25:45.365 --> 00:25:48.585
to them? Like, well, that's going to be the first conversation that they have.

00:25:48.585 --> 00:25:50.755
The RA is going to be like, well, did you talk to your roommate?

00:25:50.755 --> 00:25:52.987
Right. Have you discussed these options? Like what?

00:25:53.387 --> 00:25:55.845
You know, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I sound like you had a question.

00:25:55.845 --> 00:25:57.955
No, no, not at all. I mean, because

00:25:57.955 --> 00:26:00.535
that's the thing like where where you don't want to be a bulldozer.

00:26:01.055 --> 00:26:04.092
You want to make sure that your child is developing those skills.

00:26:04.945 --> 00:26:07.635
To resolve conflict, right? Yeah.

00:26:08.075 --> 00:26:11.405
You're listening when they call you and complain and giving them advice,

00:26:11.405 --> 00:26:14.605
but then it kind of has to be up to them. And, you know, obviously there are

00:26:14.605 --> 00:26:17.954
some situations where there's like a very bad situation, of course.

00:26:18.163 --> 00:26:21.565
Right. But even in that process, they're going to have to go through a process.

00:26:21.832 --> 00:26:24.618
It's not going to be like, oh, I want to move. I'm not happy. And they're moved.

00:26:25.094 --> 00:26:29.605
Right. Because a lot of, especially now housing is a, is a housing everywhere.

00:26:29.605 --> 00:26:32.985
I think we know is in a crisis and especially on college campuses,

00:26:32.985 --> 00:26:34.375
there are not a lot of options.

00:26:34.735 --> 00:26:37.015
And your first year, almost everybody has to live in a dorm,

00:26:37.015 --> 00:26:41.387
which means you are now living in a room with other people. And that's a big enough change.

00:26:41.747 --> 00:26:46.374
Sleeping schedules, habits, right? Those are, you know, how you grew up, very different.

00:26:46.734 --> 00:26:52.295
So I think that, yeah, I mean, I think that it's a good lesson for every student

00:26:52.295 --> 00:26:54.216
to learn, hey, this is how other people are.

00:26:54.524 --> 00:26:57.769
And I'm going to have to work in it. I know students too, they hate group projects.

00:26:58.042 --> 00:27:01.896
Well, guess what? Life is a group project. You and I, the three of us are doing one right now.

00:27:02.181 --> 00:27:05.725
So how do we best work together? Because those are what they're going to ask

00:27:05.725 --> 00:27:09.605
you about in job interviews, right? Like, and now professors have you grade

00:27:09.605 --> 00:27:11.301
each other on how you did in group projects.

00:27:11.672 --> 00:27:15.155
So I think it's also a great thing on how do you learn what your weaknesses

00:27:15.155 --> 00:27:18.946
and strengths are? If your weakness is working in a group, then let's try to figure that out.

00:27:19.370 --> 00:27:23.215
But I think working with other people is always going to be a challenge.

00:27:23.215 --> 00:27:27.363
But how do you learn to advocate for yourself and learn something about yourself in the process?

00:27:28.089 --> 00:27:30.196
What's the line, do you think, between.

00:27:31.676 --> 00:27:39.462
Trying, you know, to live with multiple people versus what might not be healthy

00:27:39.462 --> 00:27:43.929
for someone who is neurodivergent or has other like mental health concerns?

00:27:44.086 --> 00:27:48.022
That's a great question. I mean, and first off, if you have that documented,

00:27:48.022 --> 00:27:51.662
always try to apply, right? That they can always try to apply for a single.

00:27:51.662 --> 00:27:53.449
It just depends on if they have availability.

00:27:54.502 --> 00:27:59.442
Or I would always apply to have maybe be in a room with less people maybe it's

00:27:59.442 --> 00:28:04.432
just a sweet a double and a lot of the students that we work with with autism

00:28:04.432 --> 00:28:06.870
haven't had an issue with that um.

00:28:07.649 --> 00:28:12.286
But they usually go out more, right? Like it's harder for them.

00:28:12.286 --> 00:28:14.633
So they're going to go study. They're probably not going to do it in a room

00:28:14.819 --> 00:28:18.036
where there could be a person and everyone else in there, which I always tell

00:28:18.036 --> 00:28:20.014
students, don't study in your room anyway.

00:28:20.153 --> 00:28:24.046
We all do better when we are around other humans and you're not isolating.

00:28:24.046 --> 00:28:27.646
And you're not, if you're stuck on an assignment, then you can be like,

00:28:27.646 --> 00:28:30.306
hey, I'm studying with a group like, hey, I really don't understand this.

00:28:30.306 --> 00:28:33.086
You know, can you maybe explain this to me or tell me how you're doing it?

00:28:33.405 --> 00:28:36.936
That's a way to self-advocate with another human in the same class going through

00:28:36.936 --> 00:28:38.031
the same things as you are.

00:28:38.438 --> 00:28:41.036
Because once again, we can call our parent and be like, I don't know how to

00:28:41.036 --> 00:28:43.720
do this. I'm so stressed. And then as a parent, what happens?

00:28:44.040 --> 00:28:46.976
You immediately start getting stressed and trying to fix, right?

00:28:46.976 --> 00:28:49.456
Because that's just your, your parent, you love them. That's what you're going to do.

00:28:50.136 --> 00:28:54.956
Whereas, um, like body doubling. And, and I always tell my students on the first day.

00:28:54.956 --> 00:28:58.876
I think that's one of the most valuable strategies that, that people can try.

00:28:58.876 --> 00:29:02.606
I still do. I work from home all the time, but I have to go out sometimes if

00:29:02.606 --> 00:29:05.346
I'm tired, if I don't want to do something because I'm sitting on other people

00:29:05.346 --> 00:29:06.996
and I'm like, I need to be working because they're working.

00:29:07.585 --> 00:29:11.446
And I think, like I said, that's also if your student is struggling socially,

00:29:11.446 --> 00:29:12.577
make friends in your class.

00:29:12.873 --> 00:29:15.961
I had friends in my chemistry classes that I did not see socially,

00:29:16.089 --> 00:29:17.198
but we studied together.

00:29:17.511 --> 00:29:20.733
And that worked well for us, right? We were very different socially.

00:29:21.023 --> 00:29:25.596
But when we studied together, it gave us a way to be able to help each other.

00:29:25.596 --> 00:29:29.415
And I tell my students that first day, like, I'm not going to answer your email at 1030 at night.

00:29:29.850 --> 00:29:33.676
Find someone who's going to be able to text to do that or you guys study together.

00:29:34.030 --> 00:29:38.436
Also, you never know if you understand something until you explain it to someone else.

00:29:38.854 --> 00:29:42.854
I tell all my students, if you can't give directions on how to get to your house

00:29:43.004 --> 00:29:45.030
from somewhere, you don't know how to get to your house.

00:29:45.251 --> 00:29:48.618
And I am famously bad for direct with direction. So I completely understand that.

00:29:48.995 --> 00:29:52.336
But if you can explain it to your friend, you actually understand how to do

00:29:52.336 --> 00:29:54.289
it. And for me, that's a check your understanding.

00:29:56.350 --> 00:30:00.768
That's great. Yeah. Can you can you explain like in layman's terms,

00:30:00.768 --> 00:30:04.210
like what body doubling actually is for those of us who are listening?

00:30:05.338 --> 00:30:09.388
Yeah, it's just basically like been proven evidence, like psychologically,

00:30:09.388 --> 00:30:12.354
that if you are with another person, you get more things done.

00:30:13.092 --> 00:30:16.478
Right. And I think it's even easier now because some of my students even tell

00:30:16.478 --> 00:30:19.199
me they'll like call their best friend on FaceTime and be like,

00:30:19.466 --> 00:30:22.734
hey, I need to fold my laundry. Can you just sit with me while I do it?

00:30:23.538 --> 00:30:25.608
But I mean, I do the same thing. Sometimes I'm cooking dinner.

00:30:25.608 --> 00:30:29.158
I call, you know, I FaceTime one of my friends. Like, it just makes you feel,

00:30:29.158 --> 00:30:30.906
I think, A, not so isolated.

00:30:31.307 --> 00:30:34.948
And you just get more work done. It's why I think when I was in college,

00:30:34.948 --> 00:30:38.516
nobody was, obviously, there was no smartphone. We were all in the library,

00:30:38.824 --> 00:30:43.102
right? We were all studying together, where I think it's easy to isolate yourself

00:30:43.491 --> 00:30:45.947
when you've been doing that, maybe in high school.

00:30:46.132 --> 00:30:49.408
I even tell my high school parents when they ask me, like, what are some good

00:30:49.408 --> 00:30:52.431
things? I'm like, let's go back to working at the kitchen table.

00:30:52.959 --> 00:30:55.786
Like your student is on their laptop at the kitchen table or their iPad,

00:30:56.030 --> 00:30:59.298
you're doing something else. Maybe don't be on your phone if you're telling

00:30:59.298 --> 00:31:00.459
them not to be on their phone.

00:31:01.218 --> 00:31:03.758
So like I remember being at the kitchen table and like I said,

00:31:03.758 --> 00:31:07.278
my parents were not college educated, but my dad would be sitting there doing

00:31:07.278 --> 00:31:12.568
the checkbook, right? Or whatever. Or if my mom was there, she's reading a book, right? Whatever.

00:31:12.812 --> 00:31:15.858
But knowing that they were there to make sure that we got things done.

00:31:15.858 --> 00:31:18.678
But them being there also helped me. I wasn't, I love to read.

00:31:18.678 --> 00:31:21.009
So I probably would have been doing that or on the phone.

00:31:21.363 --> 00:31:27.048
But, but yeah, like, I think that that having those skills also teaches students

00:31:27.048 --> 00:31:30.978
how to not self isolate, because we know students that if they don't understand

00:31:30.978 --> 00:31:34.498
something, then they just stare at a computer screen sometimes for hours.

00:31:34.498 --> 00:31:38.434
And that's so shameful and feel so icky that you can't figure it out.

00:31:38.800 --> 00:31:42.033
Right. And then you don't know what to do. And then that's just going to spiral.

00:31:43.107 --> 00:31:47.506
Yeah. And I also, one of the things you mentioned about like not studying in

00:31:47.506 --> 00:31:51.141
your room, like, yes, of course, there might be times where you have to do that.

00:31:52.216 --> 00:31:56.196
But I think that's a very good tip because you don't want to equate your place

00:31:56.196 --> 00:32:02.486
of rest and respite with a place of work and stress and frustration.

00:32:02.486 --> 00:32:04.597
So it's good to get out and do something else.

00:32:04.853 --> 00:32:09.326
It's like when we Jamie and I both taught um you know during the pandemic and

00:32:09.326 --> 00:32:11.633
did online school I used to tell kids that were like.

00:32:12.283 --> 00:32:17.156
You know cameras on no laying in your bed right like get out of your pajamas

00:32:17.156 --> 00:32:20.526
like I used to like I can't monitor what you're wearing make it like real school

00:32:20.526 --> 00:32:22.546
yeah get out of your pajamas go

00:32:22.546 --> 00:32:26.696
sit at a different table sit up in a chair like those are things that we

00:32:27.096 --> 00:32:29.636
we should be doing because you want and you don't want to be working in your

00:32:29.636 --> 00:32:32.116
bed anyway because you don't want to equate the place that you're sleeping with

00:32:32.116 --> 00:32:36.280
where you're working so psychologically you want to separate those two spaces,

00:32:36.814 --> 00:32:40.386
and sometimes you know the kids that we deal with might not be able to see the

00:32:40.386 --> 00:32:43.304
bigger picture on things like that like why we're suggesting it but,

00:32:43.838 --> 00:32:47.366
every once in a while the label goes off so especially if you're studying with

00:32:47.366 --> 00:32:50.136
other if you're studying in your room and you got two or three other people

00:32:50.136 --> 00:32:53.996
there and they're inviting other people there now you got like i've had like uh

00:32:54.397 --> 00:32:57.316
sessions with students and i'm like you gotta not do this next time because

00:32:57.316 --> 00:33:00.646
you're not listening because there's six people in here you don't want to be

00:33:00.646 --> 00:33:04.834
with me you want to be with them which is fine but we can't get anything done when that's happening

00:33:05.270 --> 00:33:08.046
right and i do have to tell you one funny story about body doubling like there

00:33:08.046 --> 00:33:12.346
are now people um i held i taught i spoke at a neurodivergent conference

00:33:12.747 --> 00:33:15.626
and i did an activity where everyone brought something they've been putting

00:33:15.626 --> 00:33:20.752
off then it was march i had seven adults who signed up for their taxes to get their taxes done

00:33:21.088 --> 00:33:25.156
i had like someone else who signed up for a new insurance company someone needed

00:33:25.156 --> 00:33:28.496
to pay a bill they've been putting up it's just really funny that we all struggle

00:33:28.496 --> 00:33:33.126
with it, that technology in some ways makes it harder to be able to get things done, I think.

00:33:35.058 --> 00:33:42.638
Yeah, I, we actually, we took the kids to, we had a field trip and we kept asking

00:33:42.638 --> 00:33:46.608
them, like, please, you're going to this really fun social experience.

00:33:47.108 --> 00:33:50.778
Please do not wear earbuds. Please do not wear headphones. Please don't do that.

00:33:51.114 --> 00:33:56.217
And so we were some of the adults, we were having a talk about how many people

00:33:56.507 --> 00:33:59.572
leave earbuds in or headphones,

00:34:00.148 --> 00:34:04.788
even if they're not always on, because it shows other people like please or

00:34:04.788 --> 00:34:06.498
says to other people, please don't talk to me.

00:34:07.513 --> 00:34:12.928
Yeah. And I had never thought about that before.

00:34:12.928 --> 00:34:17.058
And I'm, you know, a chatty Kathy. So to me, it's like, yes,

00:34:17.058 --> 00:34:19.208
of course, like, of course, we're going to have a chat. And like,

00:34:19.628 --> 00:34:21.708
if I'm at the deli counter, and like, you want to ask me like,

00:34:21.708 --> 00:34:23.540
what I'm getting like, yeah, we'll chat. It's fine.

00:34:23.935 --> 00:34:29.914
So that generational difference of, you know, don't is also,

00:34:30.948 --> 00:34:35.878
in what I'm thinking of like self-isolation is also you could be in your room

00:34:35.878 --> 00:34:40.858
with your roommate and you're still both ignoring each other for one reason

00:34:40.858 --> 00:34:44.588
or another to avoid maybe a task or something that else, you know,

00:34:44.588 --> 00:34:45.878
something else that you should be doing.

00:34:45.878 --> 00:34:50.463
But there's so many different things that and approaches that they take to,

00:34:50.765 --> 00:34:54.178
you know, it's like we're on a boat and there's a DJ and there's kids dancing.

00:34:54.178 --> 00:34:59.769
And then there's like five kids who are just on their phone. Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:00.988 --> 00:35:07.958
It's an escape. It's a safety. I think it's, you know, and certainly not social

00:35:07.958 --> 00:35:13.688
or helpful for someone who is, you know, a regular learner, let alone someone

00:35:13.688 --> 00:35:14.856
that's a neurodivergent.

00:35:16.110 --> 00:35:18.569
Yeah, absolutely. And you see it in the classroom all the time.

00:35:18.569 --> 00:35:20.519
I'll tell my students, like, hey, let's take a five minute break.

00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.565
But I make them go outside and not take their phone.

00:35:23.110 --> 00:35:26.659
Because our labs are three hours. I'm like, we need a little bit of sunshine. Yeah. Or something.

00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:28.469
I can't do much for three. I can't

00:35:28.469 --> 00:35:31.559
do much for three hours. You're moving around. So I think it's easier.

00:35:31.939 --> 00:35:35.299
It's not a three hour lecture, but that's the other conversation to have with

00:35:35.299 --> 00:35:39.379
your student. Like a lot of classes for college are three hours long at night

00:35:39.819 --> 00:35:41.830
and it's deciding, is that for you?

00:35:42.051 --> 00:35:45.895
And that's the only section you can take. Let's talk about it. But is that for you?

00:35:46.231 --> 00:35:51.099
Right? Because I do think like when I'm talking about that change that is expected,

00:35:51.099 --> 00:35:55.856
some students fully believe who they were until up until June,

00:35:56.030 --> 00:35:59.059
they will be a completely different person in August and they will not want

00:35:59.059 --> 00:36:00.079
to use their accommodations.

00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.509
They will not want to use their, you know, extra time. They will not want to

00:36:04.509 --> 00:36:07.663
self-identify as having some kind of learning difference.

00:36:08.439 --> 00:36:11.819
They think everything's going to be fine. And those are the students I almost

00:36:11.819 --> 00:36:14.909
always get second or third semester that are on academic probation or failing

00:36:14.909 --> 00:36:18.259
out because they have always had that help. And then they're like,

00:36:18.259 --> 00:36:19.022
oh, I don't need it anymore.

00:36:19.534 --> 00:36:24.031
But yeah, you do. You're still the same person that you were all those years. Yeah.

00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:26.279
And there's nothing shameful about that.

00:36:27.237 --> 00:36:35.809
Do you have any kind of organizational planner or system that you think is helpful?

00:36:35.809 --> 00:36:41.589
I mean, our children where we live, they have block scheduling.

00:36:41.589 --> 00:36:47.759
So at most, they have three academic classes usually and then a gym or something.

00:36:47.759 --> 00:36:52.139
So they really don't have the experience of having to organize like a ton of

00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:57.069
classes where like when you get to college, it could be four or five,

00:36:57.819 --> 00:36:59.389
certainly more than they're used to.

00:36:59.389 --> 00:37:03.019
So is there something that you recommend for that?

00:37:03.651 --> 00:37:07.302
I mean, I would always say, I know nobody likes Friday classes,

00:37:07.464 --> 00:37:11.185
but also understanding as a freshman, you are getting last pick of everything.

00:37:11.331 --> 00:37:14.659
So whatever you get is what you get, right? You might have, you might not be

00:37:14.659 --> 00:37:19.687
able to have that no Friday classes until, you know, junior year or whatever.

00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:23.879
But I would always say maybe take two Monday, Wednesday, Friday to Tuesday,

00:37:23.879 --> 00:37:26.079
Thursday, or things like that.

00:37:26.659 --> 00:37:30.159
And do not take a class at 8am unless, you know, sometimes as a freshman,

00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:31.374
and you have to, it's a different story.

00:37:31.750 --> 00:37:34.979
But that's going to become more difficult. Once again, you're living with other

00:37:34.979 --> 00:37:37.875
people. So it might not be your choice when you get to go to sleep.

00:37:38.206 --> 00:37:42.799
But, and I would always say, once again, I think students are used to that massive

00:37:42.799 --> 00:37:47.634
block scheduling, but now knowing you have to take a break to eat,

00:37:48.081 --> 00:37:51.128
to go to the bed, you have to make those decisions now. It's not made for you.

00:37:51.458 --> 00:37:55.079
So understanding those breaks. And if you're a neurodivergent student and you

00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:57.787
have accommodations, you're going to get time and a half on your exam.

00:37:58.112 --> 00:38:02.879
So how can you block that where if you can take it with everyone else have that

00:38:02.879 --> 00:38:06.979
additional time But then make it to your other class because if not You're not

00:38:06.979 --> 00:38:09.577
going to have to have it at a different time than everyone else,

00:38:10.063 --> 00:38:12.829
Or you're going to be late to your second class a lot of times students are

00:38:12.829 --> 00:38:15.819
like well, that's fine I'll just be late and like that's not fine though It's

00:38:15.819 --> 00:38:18.359
not fine to the professor whose class that you need to be in right,

00:38:18.949 --> 00:38:23.589
right and so then it just kind of becomes a mess So thinking about how can we

00:38:23.589 --> 00:38:28.159
have that and at the same time to maybe not have a class that 9 a.m.

00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:32.469
And then not went till 5. It's very, as we all know, very difficult to motivate

00:38:32.469 --> 00:38:34.611
yourself to go back at 5 p.m.

00:38:35.139 --> 00:38:39.229
So any kind of healthy break, maybe like an hour, hour and a half or two hours

00:38:39.229 --> 00:38:40.329
if we're thinking about testing.

00:38:40.712 --> 00:38:43.499
And then you have time to get lunch, to do things. Because a lot of times you're

00:38:43.499 --> 00:38:44.306
not going to eat breakfast.

00:38:44.909 --> 00:38:48.957
So, but you need to eat by a certain time. So that's kind of what I think of.

00:38:48.957 --> 00:38:52.027
And when I'm working with my students, sometimes you don't have control and

00:38:52.027 --> 00:38:53.965
your first year, the schedule is just bumpy.

00:38:54.308 --> 00:39:00.017
But at the same time, like doing what works for you and do not book everything

00:39:00.017 --> 00:39:03.085
on two days. That is like, I think one of the worst things that you can do.

00:39:03.456 --> 00:39:05.457
Is there, is there any kind of system?

00:39:06.117 --> 00:39:09.917
Like, so I'm, I mean, I love a piece of paper and I love a book and I love my

00:39:09.917 --> 00:39:15.277
pen, but is Is there anything that you have, like, whereas it's like a planner

00:39:15.277 --> 00:39:19.245
or a calendar or an app? Is there something that you think is helpful?

00:39:19.953 --> 00:39:22.527
I mean, we typically, when we meet with students the first time,

00:39:22.527 --> 00:39:26.681
we have that conversation, like, what has worked and what hasn't. And I think.

00:39:27.431 --> 00:39:31.047
It depends on the student, honestly. Like some work great with Google Docs.

00:39:31.655 --> 00:39:34.478
We can even set it up on there because most schools have Outlook.

00:39:34.756 --> 00:39:36.815
So then forwarding it to their Google Docs.

00:39:37.700 --> 00:39:42.225
We also make a, like as a service, we make, take all their syllabi at the beginning

00:39:42.225 --> 00:39:45.855
of the semester and make a master calendar so they can see, hey,

00:39:45.855 --> 00:39:48.294
I have to schedule my quizzes or tests two weeks in advance.

00:39:48.532 --> 00:39:52.775
And then we have a more like tabs to make them more specific for the other ones,

00:39:52.775 --> 00:39:54.261
but just something all in one place.

00:39:55.562 --> 00:39:58.835
But some of our students use Post-its. Like one of my students had like a wall

00:39:58.835 --> 00:40:02.655
of post-its that was just like red when it was like needed, yellow if I had

00:40:02.655 --> 00:40:04.002
some time, green if, you know.

00:40:04.385 --> 00:40:08.785
So I think it really does. That's a great strategy to use different color coding

00:40:08.785 --> 00:40:12.993
networks. So it's visual. Yeah. Or emojis. I tell my, like even with my,

00:40:13.149 --> 00:40:16.981
like my staff, if you need something from me on Slack, please put like a fire emoji.

00:40:17.457 --> 00:40:19.815
And I'll be like, oh, God, I got to do that now. Right. How many,

00:40:19.815 --> 00:40:21.485
how much fire is there? Is there two?

00:40:21.810 --> 00:40:26.175
So, but I think. Listen, you shouldn't be joking around about fire being in

00:40:26.175 --> 00:40:28.495
Los Angeles after our conversation from earlier.

00:40:29.415 --> 00:40:31.235
That's true. I can't joke around about that.

00:40:32.455 --> 00:40:34.955
We were supposed to record with Tara last week, and unfortunately she was stuck,

00:40:35.789 --> 00:40:40.090
in gridlock traffic outside of Los Angeles due to a car fire,

00:40:40.975 --> 00:40:43.715
which can be very bad, we've learned. No, for sure. For sure.

00:40:45.895 --> 00:40:48.525
But yeah, just make sure it works for them. And the other discussion,

00:40:48.525 --> 00:40:51.892
too, I think, Jamie, is not to push your system on them.

00:40:52.281 --> 00:40:56.315
Because what works for you, a lot of times I think parents will get really frustrated.

00:40:56.315 --> 00:40:58.395
Well, I tried this. And I'm like, well, it doesn't work for them.

00:40:58.395 --> 00:41:00.756
So we thought about asking them what works best.

00:41:01.023 --> 00:41:04.645
And understanding, just like I'm sure your system is very different.

00:41:04.645 --> 00:41:08.995
I mean, I hate Google Calendar because I don't like having a plan out every

00:41:08.995 --> 00:41:10.502
second of my day. But I have to now.

00:41:10.995 --> 00:41:13.805
If you have a business, if you're in school, if you're whatever.

00:41:13.805 --> 00:41:18.585
And so I think we all just have to, to have that moment of what works best for us.

00:41:18.585 --> 00:41:23.135
Like I use a, I use post-its, I write things down, I can send myself reminders

00:41:23.135 --> 00:41:26.645
in my phone, but I think it's not going to be one thing that works and there's

00:41:26.645 --> 00:41:30.111
things that are going to be missed that happens for all of us. Got it.

00:41:30.957 --> 00:41:34.667
But there's got to be some system. I love the system. So I'm like that. Yeah, there has to be.

00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:38.964
There has to be a system. And probably a backup system. Yes. No.

00:41:39.704 --> 00:41:42.064
You can't go into this. If you have it on your Google calendar.

00:41:42.064 --> 00:41:44.444
You can't go into this winging it. You can't go into this.

00:41:45.044 --> 00:41:48.724
And reminders. I'm terrible about my reminders. Like I have the reminder set

00:41:48.724 --> 00:41:52.284
on my iPhone and I'll look at it and I'm like, okay, that is gone.

00:41:52.284 --> 00:41:55.112
I need to have, I always have it remind me again, like the next day,

00:41:55.437 --> 00:41:57.707
or I'm constantly like change that reminder to tomorrow.

00:41:58.003 --> 00:42:03.129
And then um you know but i i think also talking about systems don't,

00:42:03.668 --> 00:42:07.344
don't make yourself a list of 25 things to do because you're not going to do them

00:42:07.724 --> 00:42:12.054
right and i always tell people in general students people whatever the thing

00:42:12.054 --> 00:42:15.723
that i do that's successful for me is i pick the easiest thing to do off my list first

00:42:16.090 --> 00:42:19.924
so then i feel good about it cool i can keep going right i didn't pick the worst

00:42:19.924 --> 00:42:22.564
sometimes people pick the worst things first because they want to get it over

00:42:22.564 --> 00:42:25.804
with But think about that motivation tactic, right?

00:42:25.804 --> 00:42:29.383
Like, I'm not looking forward to doing that. So I'm just going to keep putting it up.

00:42:29.899 --> 00:42:34.856
Or students that are taking exams, like testing anxiety, go to a question that you recognize.

00:42:35.217 --> 00:42:38.259
If you're looking down and everything is sending you into a panic,

00:42:38.393 --> 00:42:40.899
find something that you're comfortable with. Answer that first.

00:42:41.242 --> 00:42:43.934
Then you'll start to your nervous system will slow down. You'll be like,

00:42:43.934 --> 00:42:45.253
okay, what can I answer next?

00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:48.184
Instead of just being like, all of us, I'm sure I've looked at a test and they're

00:42:48.184 --> 00:42:49.404
like, am I in the white class?

00:42:50.964 --> 00:42:55.054
It doesn't seem like I've seen this before. That is also really good advice.

00:42:55.054 --> 00:43:00.534
And we've talked to a number of different executive function experts about different

00:43:00.534 --> 00:43:04.364
strategies that you can implement, like the Pomodoro method and saying like,

00:43:04.364 --> 00:43:08.454
hey, I'm going to do this for 25 minutes and then take a little bit of a break.

00:43:08.454 --> 00:43:13.174
Like you'd be surprised what you can finish in a period of time where you are

00:43:13.371 --> 00:43:16.204
focused and dedicated and intentional about getting your work done.

00:43:17.164 --> 00:43:21.424
Yeah. And we also love a good reward. so reward yourself everybody likes that

00:43:21.424 --> 00:43:25.124
as a human ooh piece of candy and then you get to have exactly yeah have some

00:43:25.124 --> 00:43:26.844
M&M's you know everybody loves some M&M's,

00:43:27.704 --> 00:43:32.944
exactly so you know the elephant in the room I think for me and I've had this

00:43:32.944 --> 00:43:34.600
discussion with my kids before it's like,

00:43:35.308 --> 00:43:38.368
What do you do if it's not what they expected? Right. Like where,

00:43:38.698 --> 00:43:43.732
like, how can families or parents tell the difference between normal adjustment

00:43:43.732 --> 00:43:46.727
struggles and like, you know what, this isn't the right fit.

00:43:47.034 --> 00:43:52.955
Like for the not for the neurodivergent and non-neural divergent student,

00:43:53.246 --> 00:43:56.764
like how can we like when should the red flags go up?

00:43:57.733 --> 00:44:02.392
Essentially is what I'm asking. I mean, I would obviously it's different depending

00:44:02.392 --> 00:44:04.072
on mental health issues and things like that.

00:44:04.452 --> 00:44:07.391
But I would always say giving it through the first semester,

00:44:07.699 --> 00:44:11.642
right, and then reevaluating. How were the grades? How were the support systems?

00:44:11.642 --> 00:44:14.442
Sometimes support systems at the schools just don't match the students or the

00:44:14.442 --> 00:44:17.527
social life is different. I've worked with a lot of students who transferred.

00:44:18.665 --> 00:44:22.232
And I think if you know they're going to transfer or they're very unhappy,

00:44:22.232 --> 00:44:26.472
they make it through that second semester a little easier because only going

00:44:26.472 --> 00:44:29.282
one semester is going to make it that much harder to transfer, right? Right.

00:44:29.537 --> 00:44:34.739
So but I would say, I mean, I think I wanted to come home after my first semester.

00:44:35.186 --> 00:44:37.772
And my mom was like, just let's just give it one more. Let's just see where

00:44:37.772 --> 00:44:39.772
we're at. Because I didn't know anybody. It was very difficult.

00:44:39.772 --> 00:44:41.025
I'd been from a small town. Right.

00:44:41.316 --> 00:44:45.762
But by the second semester, I made friends. I found my people. I had more of an idea.

00:44:46.157 --> 00:44:51.660
So I would say giving it that first semester and also asking maybe why they want to go.

00:44:51.927 --> 00:44:56.020
A lot of students I have found is a major problem, like as in their major.

00:44:56.449 --> 00:45:01.012
They don't like what they're studying so then maybe we have the discussion why

00:45:01.012 --> 00:45:04.902
you know why did you do this are you doing this because mom and i do it or are

00:45:04.902 --> 00:45:09.376
you doing it because you thought it makes you money but it's not making you happy um,

00:45:09.881 --> 00:45:13.112
or just understanding maybe that's just not the subject material for them i

00:45:13.112 --> 00:45:17.149
think a lot of people choose like business right but accounting and finance,

00:45:18.206 --> 00:45:21.235
business calc. These are very difficult classes, right?

00:45:21.514 --> 00:45:25.397
Or like with STEM, I hate to say it, but most of my students don't love chemistry,

00:45:25.746 --> 00:45:27.946
right? But they're going to take years of that.

00:45:28.201 --> 00:45:31.076
So is that what you really want to do? Or, you know, a lot of students want

00:45:31.076 --> 00:45:33.606
to be nursing, but then they tell me, I really don't like people.

00:45:33.606 --> 00:45:36.375
Well, that's a really large part of the job.

00:45:37.866 --> 00:45:41.768
It's kind of a service industry. I mean, it is. It isn't, but it is. Yeah.

00:45:42.244 --> 00:45:45.416
Yeah. So I think having that discussion about what are you struggling with?

00:45:45.416 --> 00:45:49.366
Is it the social aspects, which is maybe that there's a school that is big into

00:45:49.366 --> 00:45:53.056
sports and that's not their thing. Right. I mean, going to Florida state,

00:45:53.056 --> 00:45:55.276
like you, everything is based around football.

00:45:55.636 --> 00:45:59.726
So I was social. That was my thing. I liked that. But, um, some of our other

00:45:59.726 --> 00:46:02.496
students, maybe that's not for them or maybe at those bigger schools,

00:46:02.496 --> 00:46:03.907
Greek life tends to be huge.

00:46:04.364 --> 00:46:09.205
Right. So that's not something for you and you can't, but there's also 98,000 clubs at schools now.

00:46:09.432 --> 00:46:11.366
Like, it's so cool. When you hear about some of them, you're like,

00:46:11.366 --> 00:46:13.618
you know, when I was in college.

00:46:14.181 --> 00:46:17.796
So I think it's having a discussion of why they're unhappy. But a lot of times

00:46:17.796 --> 00:46:22.812
it tends to be a major that maybe they're taking classes that they just hate.

00:46:23.027 --> 00:46:28.369
And they now know this is the intro of what I hate. Am I going to have to do this for forever?

00:46:29.674 --> 00:46:32.546
Or maybe like after, you know, the semester be like, hey, like,

00:46:32.546 --> 00:46:35.296
did you like anything about these classes? If not, like, let's,

00:46:35.296 --> 00:46:40.163
let's reevaluate if this is something that, you know, you really want to do forever.

00:46:41.761 --> 00:46:44.797
Yeah, I think that's great. It's great advice.

00:46:45.967 --> 00:46:49.034
I can't thank you enough for being willing to, you know, open up the.

00:46:50.875 --> 00:46:54.337
You know, your brain a little bit and let us, you know, pick some stuff out

00:46:54.337 --> 00:46:58.872
that's definitely going to help us not only with our own children, but also with,

00:47:00.347 --> 00:47:02.847
you know, the fact that I think our listeners are going to resonate with this

00:47:02.847 --> 00:47:07.447
as well, because many of them have children that are either in school or about

00:47:07.447 --> 00:47:09.767
to, or they're looking at colleges.

00:47:09.767 --> 00:47:12.375
And these are all very important talks to have with your kids.

00:47:13.587 --> 00:47:19.427
So, Tara, I'm I identify as a Sophia Petrillo. I'm just curious.

00:47:20.067 --> 00:47:27.519
Which girl is your girl? Oh, God, I'm such a I'm a Dorothy. I'm a Dorothy all the way. Sharp humor.

00:47:28.744 --> 00:47:32.337
You know, her shoes like a no for you. I know like that. I've read that she

00:47:32.337 --> 00:47:35.717
didn't. She was like in her contract that she didn't have to wear shoes on set

00:47:35.717 --> 00:47:39.025
at any time. She could be shoeless. She was.

00:47:39.648 --> 00:47:43.352
I mean, probably because she's so tall. That's probably not an issue for me as I'm five foot three.

00:47:43.932 --> 00:47:48.852
But because the rest of her, I mean, I love that. Also, I feel like it's when

00:47:48.852 --> 00:47:51.002
you get those questions, you're kind of a little bit of each of them.

00:47:51.152 --> 00:47:54.162
Yeah. Right. The best part is the work. Like I identify as Dorothy.

00:47:54.162 --> 00:47:57.112
Yes. But I love like the fashion, you know.

00:47:58.222 --> 00:48:02.712
And then I like that Rose is really funny and like just pure of heart. Right.

00:48:03.402 --> 00:48:06.172
So. I'm going to say, I'm going to say that I'm, that I'm Blanche just so I

00:48:06.172 --> 00:48:07.172
can get a laugh out of you two.

00:48:07.672 --> 00:48:13.992
Uh because there it is the best i mean you know your southern charm yes absolutely

00:48:13.992 --> 00:48:16.192
of course why not uh are you southern,

00:48:17.274 --> 00:48:21.782
no no we're both from new jersey i was like you both have that have that accent

00:48:21.782 --> 00:48:25.452
so oh good to know never heard that before we don't know that about ourselves,

00:48:26.196 --> 00:48:30.482
yeah yeah a little bit just when you say my name a little bit gotcha okay well

00:48:30.482 --> 00:48:33.352
tara williams i have To make sure I nut you as much more.

00:48:34.372 --> 00:48:37.912
Oh, my goodness. Well, look, I really, you know, again, Tara,

00:48:37.912 --> 00:48:41.402
I appreciate you. Jamie, I appreciate you. But I really am thankful that we

00:48:41.402 --> 00:48:45.132
had this talk because I'm going to make my kids listen to this one.

00:48:45.306 --> 00:48:48.063
Yes. Because I think it's important. Because, like, I don't know,

00:48:48.644 --> 00:48:52.592
you know, once your children reach a certain age, as their parent,

00:48:52.592 --> 00:48:53.896
you don't know anything anymore.

00:48:54.366 --> 00:48:58.922
You just cease being important or knowing information that might benefit them.

00:48:58.922 --> 00:49:01.623
So when they hear it from other people and the light bulb goes off.

00:49:02.772 --> 00:49:04.092
I think that'll be very helpful for them.

00:49:04.092 --> 00:49:06.982
So thank you very much for being willing to join us today. Yes,

00:49:06.982 --> 00:49:11.162
thank you. Tara, Joe, I appreciate you. And I also appreciate our season three

00:49:11.162 --> 00:49:16.412
sponsor. Our presenting sponsor, Teacher's Insurance Plan. Check out their website

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for more information and to get a quote.

00:49:19.217 --> 00:49:22.652
Teacher's Insurance Plan, auto insurance that brings exclusive educator savings

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and exceptional customer care to New Jersey and Pennsylvania educational employees. All right.

00:49:28.652 --> 00:49:34.412
We will see everybody next time on our season finale of the Balancing Act podcast.

00:49:34.412 --> 00:49:35.358
We'll see you guys next week.