From Teaching to Content Creation: Jessica Hawk on Education, Tech & Teacher Burnout

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You are listening to the Balancing Act Podcast. Here's your hosts,

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Jamie Wacco and Joe Vitale.

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All right, so we are officially recording. Thumbs up. Thumbs up with another returning face. Hello.

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Hi. How are you? So happy to be here. Jessica Hawk, it's great to have you back again. Thank you.

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Welcome to the Balancing Act Podcast. Yes. We are here with our favorite teacher face. Yeah.

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Play on words. I'm here with Jessica Hawk and Joseph Vitale. Hello, Mr. Vitale.

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We are very excited to have such an awesome guest with us today,

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especially because you graciously were willing enough to be on our show when

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we had no following, except the fact that we were from New Jersey and I reached out.

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We had mentioned before about how, you know, helpful...

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Teachers are to each other and the podcast community is helpful to each other.

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So we thank you for taking a risk with us a long time ago.

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And now, you know, we're trying to continue to grow and we're in a place like

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this. And you know what, Jersey people have to stick together. That's right. Yes.

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And you know, and you know, being that we're here at the New Jersey Hall of

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Fame, we have to mention our season three is brought to you by our presenting

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sponsor, Teachers Insurance Plan.

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Check out their website for more information and give them a call,

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which I've done, so friendly on the other side of the phone, to get a quote.

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Teacher's insurance plan, auto insurance that brings exclusive educator savings

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and exceptional customer care to New Jersey and Pennsylvania educational employees. Who are we?

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We're doing ads. We're in the Hall of Fame recording. You guys are moving up.

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Yeah, we're hanging in there.

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Well, listen, moving up, okay? I know someone's been frequenting the Board Teachers

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podcast, which is awesome.

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Actually, if you don't listen to the Bored Teachers podcast,

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you should, because they have a lot of fun content and stories about what it's

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like in the trenches and just amazing, fun content to be a part of.

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So you have to update us, first of all, because the last time we spoke,

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you were still in the classroom. We had the Error's Tour t-shirt where we were

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getting ready to retire and ride off into the sunset. So we'd love to hear what

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you've been up to since the last time you were on our show. Yes.

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So that had to be 2023-24 because I retired in 24.

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And I did have the t-shirt where it was my last tour.

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And every month I had a student cross off the month to get to the end.

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Love that. And honestly, I wasn't quite sure what life after teaching would

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be. Because remember, I taught for 32 years.

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You guys have both taught for 28, 25.

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And if you've only been a teacher.

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It's bizarre to think, how do I transition from that life to something else?

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And so I actually got a headhunter because I didn't know I would be doing content creation full time.

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I just kind of fell into this. And I said, what am I going to do?

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I was a former teacher. What's out there? And she said, you cannot believe how

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many people want teachers.

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And she said, guess why? I said, we are problem solvers.

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We are organizers. We think ahead.

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We don't ask for extra directions.

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And she said those are the exact reasons why corporations want teachers,

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like for onboarding or for doing corporate trainings. And so I was thinking

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about that. I was looking. I created a LinkedIn.

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And then I just kept doing social media.

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And I didn't know if it would be viable enough to supplement my pension.

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I am very happy that I have a pension.

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However, let me just warn you, when you retire, your pension,

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it's not that big. It is something.

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So I am very grateful. But once they take out taxes and health insurance and

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dental, I'm like, oh, so if I didn't have a second job, I would have had to

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move out of my apartment immediately.

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So I said, let me try content creation, really leaning into it.

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And that's what I've been doing for two years. That's awesome. Yeah.

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And we love the stuff that you do, not just from a humor standpoint,

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but also from the fact that you're...

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Still an advocate for the profession that you're still talking about some of

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the things that are taking place

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in education today and how we're going to retain new teachers. Right.

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You know, because a lot of people, when they get out of the classroom,

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they're like, you know, F that noise. I'm just going to go retire and do my own thing.

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So I greatly, I know Jamie does too, greatly appreciate the fact. And you're so honest.

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I love when you talk about your hair. I mean, there's just everything.

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Yeah. Well, I can't let somebody compliment my hair

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and not say it's extensions because oh

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okay i didn't know i didn't know that i mean yes

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tell us everything yeah so we'll say oh my god but i

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i don't want to get off topic but that content is not in my algorithm apparently

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i wish you i wish i had your hair and i was like you can i'll tell you where

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to buy it that's amazing so i just don't want to be fake in that way and and

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i want teachers to see what is on camera.

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A lot of it is fake. A lot of it is for clicks and views.

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And I just wanted to be authentic with not only who I am and my foibles and my faults.

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And that's why I do the teacher one, teacher two videos where I reflect on who

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I was in the beginning of my career and the hard fist, you know,

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deadlines are deadlines and blah, blah, blah, and how I kind of relaxed.

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And as I got more confident in my teaching and as I got more experienced,

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I was able to kind of work with the nuances that come with being a teacher.

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Because it's not black and white all the time. There's a lot of gray area in being a teacher.

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So I love to do videos like that so younger teachers can say,

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oh, wait a minute, I am like teacher one. I do want to get to teacher two.

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So I try to give them that advice. Yeah, that's something we've been talking

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about too on our show is like the arc of your career and how you go through like these phases.

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We've talked a little bit about self-care recently and about how we hate that phrase.

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And, you know, about what one needs at the beginning of their career is not

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what they need at the end of their career.

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It's like there's a constant change in arc of what, you know,

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hierarchy of needs might be.

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But what we're, you know, what we're talking about in this episode and the ones

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that are coming up in the next few weeks is specifically about,

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you know, technology in the classroom and how things have changed over time.

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And we were talking before the episode, and I definitely want to mention in

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an arrogant way, I think that our perspective on this is...

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The best perspective because we all, all three of us started with no technology in the classroom.

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There were three computers in the school that I taught in that were on carts

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that we would use and pull in.

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And then I bought a laptop and we had one LCD projector that you would sign off from the library.

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So we went from that to carts of Chromebooks, to iPads, to one-to-one teaching

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during the pandemic and then teaching after the pandemic.

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So I think we have had the gamut of all of it.

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And we've seen no technology in the classroom all the way to one-to-one devices.

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And I think that our perspective on how things have changed in education is

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a valuable one for people to listen to because of we've had those scars on our

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face and mud on our boots from those experiences.

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So, yeah. And I don't think there's anything arrogant about that.

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Yeah. You know, don't make me start calling you an expert again,

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because you know I will. Yes.

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So, yeah, that's definitely what we want to talk to you about.

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And especially because the changing, you know,

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landscape of education is one that is greatly affected by, you know,

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technology and its integration in the classroom and the pullback that's happening

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in districts across the country and what individual teachers might be doing.

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What I've done individually in my classroom as my career arc has changed has

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definitely had an impact on my teaching style as well as what impact I feel

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this is having on the student learner in my classroom. Right.

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So we know that you taught AP classes and I think, is that the first place where

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you pulled back with your technology or use of.

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It actually wasn't. Okay. So I started in 1992 when there was not a computer in the building. Right.

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And that was in Prince George's County, Maryland, Thomas Johnson Middle School, baptism of fire.

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And I stayed there for one year, and then I moved back to New Jersey.

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And it wasn't until, I would say, 96, 97 that they put a computer on our desk,

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the teacher's desk, because we had a program called GradeQuick.

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Do you remember GradeQuick? We didn't use that one, no. There's so many grading platforms.

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But we had GradeQuick, and it was just the teacher.

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Then we moved to computers in the media center or in a computer lab.

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And it was Lord of the Flies to try to sign up for the computer labs for a number

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of days where your kids could work on it.

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Then we moved to one-to-one. And originally it was done with sophomores and

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seniors, and then the next year it was freshmen coming. You know,

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so we kind of integrated it.

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And whenever I talk about technology and education, I say, I saw the biggest

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shift in my students 2014, 2015.

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Okay. That was a year where I went, wait a minute, this is different.

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Something is happening here. And that was about five years after kids had been

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completely immersed in social media, where they were starting to get their own phones, smartphones.

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And now I was competing for attention.

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And I always try to be funny. I always try to be engaging. You know,

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most teachers try to do something to keep their kids.

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But the second I wasn't a stand-up comedian, their face is glazed over.

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And I'm like, guys, I can't do a stand-up routine for 40 minutes six times a day.

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But you're really funny. I'm like, all right, thank you. But it's exhausting.

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Yes. Can we just listen to the lesson?

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So then I'm sure you also pivoted with this where I used to be able to give lectures with notes.

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Then I had to cut that down to chunks, 15-minute chunks.

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And then it was 10-minute chunks. And I had to pivot constantly.

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Here's an activity. Here's a little more information.

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Here's some notes. So when we first got electronics for all of the kids one-to-one,

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we were inundated with programs that had been sold to us. Yes. Yes.

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Jamboard, Flipgrid, Kahoot, all of these things, and IXL, all of these programs.

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There was a little IXL. There was a little anger in IXL. You were like, IXL. It was a little.

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I can't even. That's how I feel about it.

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But do you remember the presentations of the representatives from the companies

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and they came in and they're like, this is going to revolutionize everything.

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And a lot of us who are veterans are like, is it? Is it really?

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And it was bought and it was licensed and we had to use it.

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And it became more of a burden to the students because there wasn't really any

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data that we could apply to the students instantly because it was so varied.

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And you can differentiate, but if you have a class of 30 and they're all in

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different levels of IXL, how do you do that?

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So I actually stopped using things like that. Excuse me.

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No problem. I stopped using things like that and I went to photocopies,

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paper, and I had my kids read and annotate on paper.

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I remember right around that time, 2014, 2015, that's when, you know,

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we were inundated with Google for education.

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Our district went one-to-one iPads for a little while.

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I myself decided like, okay, I didn't learn how to teach with this stuff, right?

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And I decided I could either be a dinosaur or I could adapt,

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learn and implement, right? So I decided to start diving into things a little

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bit more, tried to get a little bit more creative.

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You know, I applied and was accepted to Apple's Academy and went out to California

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to get trained on how to use Apple devices, thinking that that was the direction

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our district is going to go in.

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And they didn't because it's cost prohibitive for a large district in which

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we work in to go completely to Apple.

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And how it works best is everything should be inherent to that technology.

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But we had Chromebooks and we were using Google for education and we were trying

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to use iTunes U to deliver curriculum.

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And it was like it was round peg square hole. It was too many things.

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It was too many things. It was too many things. But I was trying to implement.

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And I remember coming back from the training that I was in in California and

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my students had been working on a project in the computer lab,

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which no one had been using.

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So I was like, OK, let's go back and finish up that computer lab and getting

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and finish up the project in the computer lab. and getting a call from the principal.

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It's like, why are you in the computer lab again?

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And I'm like, the district is sending me, spending thousands of dollars for

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me to implement technology in the classroom and help train other teachers.

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So I'm using what I'm trained to do. I'm using what I'm learning.

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So I was like, okay, then we'll just do this another time. Fine,

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I'll come out of the computer lab. It's not like I was taking it from someone

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else. Like it was unused.

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It was no one was using it at the time. So...

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There were little shifts like that. And then, you know, I went through my career,

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taught during the pandemic, and I felt like I think Jamie would agree with this,

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like for the middle school level and the fact that we were doing trainings,

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like I was a point person for like five different schools.

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Like I was helping to train different teachers. I was sitting at a table for 12 hours a day.

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And then after the school day, I was meeting with my colleagues because they

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were learning how to do, you know, those of us who had got trained to be Google

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trainers and learn the technology were good at remote learning.

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And those that were resistant struggled.

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So I was trying to help them, you know, get up to speed and then learn through

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hybrid learning and do all that stuff.

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But as soon as we got back into the classroom and I was in front of students

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again, I was like, this isn't working. It's not.

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I was like, I pull everything back. Like if we use Chromebooks once a week.

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It's a lot in my room. Now, do I still show a video?

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Yes. Do I still do stations where I include a vocabulary because it's fun? Sure.

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But like, I go back to like paper projects, making a poster,

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like the ability for them to do deep, critical thinking.

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And something you said, I'm sorry, I'm going on for so long.

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Something you said in our first episode about how you cover material.

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It's about, and I'm probably going to say it wrong.

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It's about depth and not breath.

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Breath and not depth. Right. Which way is it? It's about depth.

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Yeah. So I'm trying to go deeper into the material to get them thinking and

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talking with one another.

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Rather than let's sit in front of a device. And I play whack-a-mole when I walk

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in the room because as soon as I get in the room, the Chromebooks are open and

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it's game, game, game, game, game.

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And I'm just walking around the room. I just don't, I just go,

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I just walk in, close Chromebooks. I'm like, okay, we're getting started.

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Like we're not using this.

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We have our morning meeting because like what you said,

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The biggest problem I have is, like, could you please listen to the directions?

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And I can't imagine middle school. I taught middle school for one year.

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Yes. It's a whole other world. Yeah.

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My hat's off to both of you. Thank you. Because they are squirrely. Yes. Feral.

00:16:12.220 --> 00:16:15.500
They are feral. They are squirrely. And it's not my personality.

00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:20.740
And I knew that I could not stay with that level of immaturity because I'm incredibly

00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:26.660
sarcastic. and it just doesn't land right with the middle school kids all the time.

00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:32.600
So, you know, when I got to high school, I said, this is more a fit for me, not freshmen.

00:16:32.920 --> 00:16:36.440
I've never taught freshmen. I said, if you ever want me to retire early,

00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:37.660
give me a freshman schedule.

00:16:38.040 --> 00:16:44.160
Message received, I'm out. So sophomores, juniors, and seniors. But I noticed that.

00:16:45.106 --> 00:16:50.286
They just weren't retaining anything when we were doing things on the Chromebook.

00:16:50.406 --> 00:16:52.866
And like you, I was being a good little soldier.

00:16:53.686 --> 00:16:57.706
Here's the things, and this is what the data says, or this is what the company's

00:16:57.706 --> 00:17:02.366
data says that will help our students. And I'm like, I want to help my students.

00:17:02.366 --> 00:17:06.866
I want to make sure that they have 21st century skills and they're ready for the job market.

00:17:07.706 --> 00:17:13.506
But training them in using technology for their lessons doesn't mean that they,

00:17:14.026 --> 00:17:17.346
won't be able to be in the job market if you don't do that. It's more about

00:17:17.346 --> 00:17:18.626
the transferable skills.

00:17:19.006 --> 00:17:24.006
So my whole goal was to work on inference, depth of analysis,

00:17:24.346 --> 00:17:28.126
critical thinking, all of the things that they could use, not only in my class,

00:17:28.246 --> 00:17:31.146
but in other subjects and then in future jobs.

00:17:31.426 --> 00:17:35.866
So I cut the majority of what I was teaching.

00:17:36.506 --> 00:17:42.226
I cut the books, I cut the short stories, And I spent more time on fewer things

00:17:42.226 --> 00:17:48.766
with greater depth than doing multiple things on a surface level just to rush

00:17:48.766 --> 00:17:49.626
through the curriculum.

00:17:49.866 --> 00:17:56.046
It was ridiculous. Yeah, like our seventh grade curriculum is, I can't get through it.

00:17:56.266 --> 00:17:59.446
But it's just that. And see, look at the words. We say get through it.

00:17:59.466 --> 00:18:02.166
Yeah, I know. And I was trying to cover the material.

00:18:02.446 --> 00:18:06.786
And that does nothing for the students. No. I was just rushing through.

00:18:07.886 --> 00:18:10.746
Student be damned if you don't get it, I'm on to the next thing,

00:18:10.826 --> 00:18:13.246
which is why I have a huge issue with scripted curriculum.

00:18:13.606 --> 00:18:16.946
Because there is, from teachers who tell me across the country,

00:18:17.046 --> 00:18:19.786
there is no wiggle room. That.

00:18:21.475 --> 00:18:25.775
Is, when I first started teaching, we had reading, writing workshop,

00:18:25.775 --> 00:18:29.235
and there was like a scripted element to it.

00:18:29.415 --> 00:18:32.975
And sometimes we'll talk about some of us that did it and then didn't.

00:18:33.275 --> 00:18:41.555
As a newer teacher, it was very helpful. But there wasn't, it was suggested, it was not required.

00:18:41.695 --> 00:18:46.095
There's the difference. And that was so important. And I, so I learned what

00:18:46.095 --> 00:18:51.115
worked well, what did not, what felt natural for me, what did not.

00:18:51.375 --> 00:18:54.895
And then we were able to adapt it. And, you know, and so, you know,

00:18:54.955 --> 00:19:00.435
I can, I can go back and forth about that a little bit, but it was, it was great at the time.

00:19:00.795 --> 00:19:04.515
We also had like a chunked block with our kids.

00:19:04.935 --> 00:19:09.015
So we had about an hour and a half a day to teach reading and writing.

00:19:10.135 --> 00:19:14.695
Since we now have- And that was pre-block scheduling too, because it was period.

00:19:14.915 --> 00:19:15.975
So they'd block them together.

00:19:16.495 --> 00:19:22.755
Which was great. But now they have 60 minutes for both subjects.

00:19:23.255 --> 00:19:28.495
And everybody knows the subject that people will avoid, which is writing,

00:19:28.715 --> 00:19:30.075
which is very unfortunate.

00:19:30.575 --> 00:19:34.695
So there's part of the argument that there is no time. The other part is,

00:19:34.935 --> 00:19:38.595
you know, and not that the reading isn't, you know, equally important.

00:19:38.915 --> 00:19:44.115
But it's, I think, the first thing that reading English teachers will say,

00:19:44.315 --> 00:19:48.115
you know, because we used to have.

00:19:48.135 --> 00:19:50.655
To share a class and somebody would have to do the reading and someone have

00:19:50.655 --> 00:19:52.755
to do the writing. And I always would do the writing.

00:19:53.235 --> 00:19:56.315
And no one, it was such an easy, no one ever wanted. It was like,

00:19:56.355 --> 00:20:00.595
yeah, sure, you can do the writing. That's fine. Gotcha. You know, so my journey with,

00:20:01.310 --> 00:20:04.470
technology specifically was a little bit different because I

00:20:04.470 --> 00:20:08.070
had left teaching reading and writing and

00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:11.610
moved into teaching social studies I was like I could I was certified for both

00:20:11.610 --> 00:20:17.650
and when testing really blew up I was just getting so discouraged and I was

00:20:17.650 --> 00:20:24.630
right around probably like year 11 12 13 in that range and I was pregnant with

00:20:24.630 --> 00:20:28.010
twins and that those would be my second and third kids And I was like, what?

00:20:28.150 --> 00:20:31.190
I can't. You know, it was like just, I couldn't. Like, I'm going to have to

00:20:31.190 --> 00:20:32.510
go back to work. How am I going to do this?

00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:34.990
I have a social study. You know, I can teach social studies.

00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:37.650
Someone was retiring and they thought, you're not coming back.

00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:45.370
So I slid into social studies, which was wonderful because no one really pays as much attention.

00:20:46.150 --> 00:20:48.970
For now, I don't know. They're saying they're going to start having us do some

00:20:48.970 --> 00:20:52.150
testing and things like that. But I'll wait that out a little.

00:20:52.430 --> 00:20:57.050
But we had gotten grant money. And so this was the 15-16 school year.

00:20:57.150 --> 00:21:03.710
We got grant money to buy enough Chromebooks to have a one-on-one program for

00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:06.130
social studies and language arts teachers.

00:21:06.410 --> 00:21:11.290
And so what we did was I kind of wrote this plan where every social studies

00:21:11.290 --> 00:21:13.690
teacher was going to have a reading writing teacher as their partner.

00:21:14.130 --> 00:21:19.150
And we worked together because we used to have librarians. We used to have media

00:21:19.150 --> 00:21:22.670
specialists who would do research projects. Our district eliminated them.

00:21:23.250 --> 00:21:28.350
They started eliminating all of our libraries. And we have almost none left.

00:21:28.990 --> 00:21:33.030
For our school district with about 13,000 kids, we have one media specialist

00:21:33.030 --> 00:21:35.930
in the entire school district.

00:21:36.370 --> 00:21:41.230
And so it was something that, you know, talk about critical thinking.

00:21:42.010 --> 00:21:45.890
But everyone's like, we don't even have a library anymore. We don't have a librarian.

00:21:46.070 --> 00:21:49.050
How are we supposed to do these and teach these very important skills?

00:21:49.450 --> 00:21:52.970
Research skills and vetting sources. Yes. So we said, you know what,

00:21:53.050 --> 00:21:56.190
let's keep this alive, but we'll do it with another teacher.

00:21:56.450 --> 00:22:02.050
So in the beginning, I thought it was, and we also included special education classes.

00:22:03.012 --> 00:22:08.452
So we did that and we did it for like two, three years in that way.

00:22:08.452 --> 00:22:10.612
And I thought it was such a great model.

00:22:10.772 --> 00:22:14.412
They did not have it in science. They did not have it in math.

00:22:14.652 --> 00:22:16.792
You know, they didn't have it in their specials classes.

00:22:17.372 --> 00:22:22.892
And so when I look at the way that it is now and it's so misused,

00:22:23.252 --> 00:22:29.352
what bothers me is that teachers are going to bear another societal blame. Mm-hmm.

00:22:29.956 --> 00:22:32.776
Because you're pre-annoyed i remember one of our one of

00:22:32.776 --> 00:22:36.116
our clips from a previous uh episode that actually got some

00:22:36.116 --> 00:22:39.076
traction on social media not i mean you know we're not we're not

00:22:39.076 --> 00:22:43.496
you okay we're we're not throwing we're never not yeah we're trying um it really

00:22:43.496 --> 00:22:46.676
does bother me it's another thing that gets thrown on us what's coming and you

00:22:46.676 --> 00:22:50.396
know the results that have happened over and over again and you know that it

00:22:50.396 --> 00:22:54.496
would be yet another initiative that might not have follow through right but

00:22:54.496 --> 00:22:57.376
you're going to i think that's work right that's the biggest thing you said

00:22:57.376 --> 00:22:58.256
is about the follow-through.

00:22:58.496 --> 00:23:00.356
Like when we talk about... And we're going to get the blame though.

00:23:00.356 --> 00:23:02.456
Like, oh, here's another program that we're going to implement.

00:23:02.476 --> 00:23:07.516
Yes. And then there is no like support for whence that gets put.

00:23:07.616 --> 00:23:09.236
And you can't take it away completely.

00:23:09.696 --> 00:23:12.256
Right. And you can't leave it the way it is.

00:23:13.016 --> 00:23:18.316
And you can't take your three-year-old out to dinner without giving them an iPad.

00:23:18.956 --> 00:23:23.216
But it's my problem as a teacher because I'm going to let them immerse themselves

00:23:23.216 --> 00:23:26.696
in an experience that they wouldn't have without the computer.

00:23:26.856 --> 00:23:28.956
You know what? Right. It's not all or nothing.

00:23:29.376 --> 00:23:32.816
And that bothers me very, very much. Yeah, I agree. You know,

00:23:32.896 --> 00:23:36.396
so we're going to continue on with it, but I see it as a parent.

00:23:36.916 --> 00:23:43.836
And you should be able to have projects and tasks and art and all sorts of things

00:23:43.836 --> 00:23:48.796
you're doing that do not involve technology as much as you can turn around and

00:23:48.796 --> 00:23:52.496
do something that does because it is a part of our world.

00:23:52.496 --> 00:23:56.556
And it is something that is necessary and required, you know.

00:23:56.716 --> 00:23:59.376
Right, right. And it's kind of cool. Some of it's really cool.

00:23:59.856 --> 00:24:04.416
Some of it is cool. But I think what's happening now is that we have kids who

00:24:04.416 --> 00:24:08.316
have always had technology, but they've never built technology.

00:24:08.602 --> 00:24:15.462
The skills, base skills that are needed in thinking and reasoning and analysis

00:24:15.462 --> 00:24:23.522
in order to use those pieces of technology, those programs effectively.

00:24:23.862 --> 00:24:28.682
So they're used to clicking and pushing and moving. And if they don't get instant

00:24:28.682 --> 00:24:34.022
gratification or find what they want immediately, then they shut down.

00:24:34.422 --> 00:24:38.502
I've had kids where I've said, okay, let's look for X, Y, and Z.

00:24:38.602 --> 00:24:41.842
They'll google something it's not here and i

00:24:41.842 --> 00:24:45.262
said okay did you scroll did you

00:24:45.262 --> 00:24:48.882
maybe go down past the first hit that

00:24:48.882 --> 00:24:51.822
you got and no no it was just it's

00:24:51.822 --> 00:24:59.422
not instantly right here so the idea of kids growing up zero to two especially

00:24:59.422 --> 00:25:05.362
on technology it is changing their brains and then zero to five would be the

00:25:05.362 --> 00:25:09.822
ideal where you try to eliminate technology as much as possible.

00:25:09.862 --> 00:25:15.082
So they are building those neurons, those cognitive abilities,

00:25:15.082 --> 00:25:18.802
so that when they get to school and when they have technology in front of them,

00:25:19.002 --> 00:25:25.322
they have skills to process the tasks and to know how to use technology effectively.

00:25:27.309 --> 00:25:32.069
I know some of the research that's been floating around out there is that this, you know,

00:25:32.189 --> 00:25:36.109
Gen Z that's going to be eventually out in the workforce is not going to have

00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:40.869
the ability to cognitively think as well as a current generation,

00:25:40.869 --> 00:25:44.749
which is going to affect workforce ability, which is going to affect.

00:25:44.969 --> 00:25:49.289
And that's it's a societal thing. It's not anything that the schools are are

00:25:49.289 --> 00:25:52.749
to blame for, although we're going to get blamed for it.

00:25:52.849 --> 00:25:57.269
But like we're also contributing to the amount of screen time that a child has. Absolutely.

00:25:57.529 --> 00:26:02.549
You know, and again, okay, go to your computer. We're going to work in Google Slides today.

00:26:02.729 --> 00:26:05.749
And you're, you know, looking in GoGuardian to see what kids are doing,

00:26:05.909 --> 00:26:07.889
expecting them to be engaged and on task.

00:26:08.009 --> 00:26:10.849
And it's who's got YouTube shorts on, who's got this on. And you're,

00:26:11.189 --> 00:26:12.289
again, playing whack-a-mole.

00:26:12.509 --> 00:26:16.229
Are we dealing with behaviors and management or are we delivering content?

00:26:16.429 --> 00:26:20.149
And I think more of us are, and the reason why teachers are leaving the profession,

00:26:20.489 --> 00:26:24.249
right, like let's call it what it is, is because...

00:26:25.752 --> 00:26:32.052
We're not like we didn't go into this to manage behavior for the entire day. I'm not a psychologist.

00:26:32.312 --> 00:26:36.352
No, I'm not a therapist. I've learned certain skills over the years dealing

00:26:36.352 --> 00:26:42.652
with adolescence, but I was not trained in mental meltdowns.

00:26:43.032 --> 00:26:46.852
You know, we have the what are they called the things you do in the beginning

00:26:46.852 --> 00:26:50.012
of the year, the safety modules that you have to go through.

00:26:50.012 --> 00:26:55.772
But I think we need more of those that are built on behavior modification and

00:26:55.772 --> 00:26:58.312
regulating dysregulated students.

00:26:58.752 --> 00:27:02.612
And that takes up so much time.

00:27:02.772 --> 00:27:08.012
And the majority of teachers, I get DMs and emails daily from teachers who are

00:27:08.012 --> 00:27:14.172
really, really struggling. And it's heavy on me to say, please give me some advice.

00:27:14.452 --> 00:27:16.572
All I'm doing is managing behaviors.

00:27:17.192 --> 00:27:24.092
So what do you tell them? So, I tell them, that is not your actual job.

00:27:24.172 --> 00:27:26.992
That's not what you signed up for. This is an administrative issue.

00:27:27.132 --> 00:27:29.132
This is something that goes beyond you.

00:27:29.332 --> 00:27:32.532
Do you have a mentor? Do you have a union?

00:27:32.792 --> 00:27:39.912
Do you have something where you have a cadre of teachers who can go en masse

00:27:39.912 --> 00:27:46.012
and say, this is affecting our teaching? And it's affecting other kids in the

00:27:46.012 --> 00:27:47.252
class who aren't learning.

00:27:48.252 --> 00:27:52.512
But then when I suggest that, they'll say, not only do I not have a union,

00:27:52.652 --> 00:27:54.012
my state doesn't have unions.

00:27:54.652 --> 00:27:57.392
And my administrators are absent.

00:27:58.628 --> 00:28:02.248
My administrators are nowhere to be found. If we send a kid out,

00:28:02.528 --> 00:28:03.968
they're sent back with a lollipop.

00:28:05.068 --> 00:28:08.828
I'm like, oh, dear goodness gracious. We luckily don't have that experience.

00:28:08.988 --> 00:28:12.328
We've worked in buildings where that has taken place.

00:28:12.448 --> 00:28:15.748
But now, you know. A common question for our principal is like,

00:28:15.848 --> 00:28:17.268
how much longer? How many years?

00:28:17.408 --> 00:28:20.348
Because people are pre-nervous that she's leaving.

00:28:20.608 --> 00:28:23.008
Because she's that good? Because she's that good. Oh, good for you.

00:28:23.048 --> 00:28:28.488
You kind of know within the first 10 minutes if she's absent because the kids have it clocked.

00:28:28.488 --> 00:28:31.248
Like you can feel like in the building and everyone's like is

00:28:31.248 --> 00:28:34.148
she here is she coming is she absent is it all day you see the bluetooth

00:28:34.148 --> 00:28:36.928
headphones yeah you see the kids yeah you see the kids that

00:28:36.928 --> 00:28:41.868
have like the the uh nike pro shorts on yeah but they have sweatpants on over

00:28:41.868 --> 00:28:45.108
them they're like oh she's not here the sweatpants come off she stands at the

00:28:45.108 --> 00:28:49.128
front door as they're that's also they know immediately that's a larger conversation

00:28:49.128 --> 00:28:53.448
of like we need to also but it is her expectations when she's not in the building

00:28:53.448 --> 00:28:56.848
yeah important administrative um presence yeah.

00:28:57.508 --> 00:29:03.968
And I don't think enough administrators recognize the ripple effect that they

00:29:03.968 --> 00:29:06.048
have. And I had fantastic administrators.

00:29:06.288 --> 00:29:10.888
That's why I stayed in education as long as I did, because they were so effective.

00:29:11.048 --> 00:29:14.428
And I remember when my superintendent first became superintendent,

00:29:15.008 --> 00:29:16.168
people wanted to test her.

00:29:16.608 --> 00:29:20.428
It was her first year, and there was an incident that happened in the high school,

00:29:20.508 --> 00:29:24.648
and the parent came in loaded for bear to her office and said,

00:29:24.648 --> 00:29:28.388
I am going to blah, blah, blah, and I'm going to call my lawyer and sue.

00:29:28.468 --> 00:29:31.328
And she goes, oh, okay, use my landline. It has a better connection.

00:29:31.708 --> 00:29:34.728
I'll call my lawyer on my cell phone. Go right ahead.

00:29:35.148 --> 00:29:42.468
And once that tone was set, it was on all the township Facebook pages and word got out.

00:29:42.628 --> 00:29:46.008
Don't go in with empty threats. And that's all it takes.

00:29:46.268 --> 00:29:53.428
It takes that one person to have a stand on something and the teachers know

00:29:53.428 --> 00:29:55.468
they're supported and they're more apt.

00:29:56.243 --> 00:30:01.263
To discipline students. Yes. I know schools where teachers know there is no

00:30:01.263 --> 00:30:02.443
administrative support.

00:30:02.523 --> 00:30:04.843
So they're like, well, I'm not going to do anything about the dress code because

00:30:04.843 --> 00:30:07.643
they're going to get sent back to me. And I look like an idiot.

00:30:08.083 --> 00:30:13.583
I'm not going to do anything about this infraction because nothing will happen.

00:30:14.343 --> 00:30:18.123
Have you ever thought I work in education? Why is finding a job so weirdly hard?

00:30:18.503 --> 00:30:21.963
Yeah. Scrolling through random job boards where half the listings don't even

00:30:21.963 --> 00:30:27.063
make sense is not the vibe. That's why njschooljobs.com actually makes sense.

00:30:27.303 --> 00:30:30.783
It's a job board built specifically for New Jersey schools, public,

00:30:31.043 --> 00:30:32.763
private, charter, and parochial.

00:30:32.903 --> 00:30:36.163
Teachers, administrators, counselors, support staff, coaching opportunities.

00:30:36.163 --> 00:30:40.583
If your job involves a bell schedule, this site's for you. It's free for job seekers.

00:30:40.843 --> 00:30:45.003
You can upload your resume, set job alerts, and apply without jumping through hoops.

00:30:45.143 --> 00:30:49.503
Schools across New Jersey actively use njschooljobs.com, so these are real,

00:30:49.723 --> 00:30:53.963
current openings. They also host virtual job fairs, where you can connect with

00:30:53.963 --> 00:30:55.263
multiple districts online.

00:30:55.603 --> 00:30:59.563
No driving all over the state. Those are coming up soon, so check the link in

00:30:59.563 --> 00:31:01.283
our episode description to register.

00:31:01.583 --> 00:31:04.423
Head to njschooljobs.com.

00:31:06.303 --> 00:31:10.243
We also implemented, we have No Tech Mondays, right?

00:31:10.423 --> 00:31:15.043
So that's building wide. Oh. But there were multiple announcements that had

00:31:15.043 --> 00:31:17.703
to be made. It's like, hey, we're all doing this.

00:31:18.103 --> 00:31:21.383
We're all doing No Tech Monday. This isn't like an optional,

00:31:21.683 --> 00:31:25.463
like, if you want to do it, you can do it. Like, no one is using technology.

00:31:26.043 --> 00:31:29.623
And I remember somebody raised a hand and asked, can we? But it's the first

00:31:29.623 --> 00:31:31.643
day of the, and we did, nope, do it on paper.

00:31:32.603 --> 00:31:37.043
I applaud the person to be brave enough to ask the question. Right.

00:31:37.663 --> 00:31:42.303
Okay. But at the same time, that was probably not the right question to ask in that moment.

00:31:42.503 --> 00:31:45.863
I get it. And now it's a trend in our district because my kids go to a different

00:31:45.863 --> 00:31:47.303
school and they have no tech Friday.

00:31:47.563 --> 00:31:52.123
Yeah. And one of the other schools has no tech Tuesday, which is even more confusing.

00:31:52.123 --> 00:31:54.043
So teachers can't use tech in the classroom.

00:31:54.183 --> 00:31:56.703
Kids aren't always tech. I mean, if I decide to use a smart board and show a

00:31:56.703 --> 00:32:00.763
video. Oh, okay. So that's a little bit like, but even that, I try to not rely.

00:32:01.023 --> 00:32:04.783
Yes. And it turns out, we talked about this in another episode where I do like

00:32:04.783 --> 00:32:08.623
mindfulness and a kindness one-on-one thing on Mondays.

00:32:08.663 --> 00:32:11.643
So it works out that like, I was like, oh, let me do it on Mondays.

00:32:11.763 --> 00:32:15.503
But like, I wasn't thinking it was no technology, but it happens to be all no technology.

00:32:16.323 --> 00:32:21.143
We had movement Monday, which I loved. And you had to do some sort of physical movement.

00:32:21.363 --> 00:32:26.603
I love that. And I think it like anywhere between five and seven minutes a period,

00:32:26.603 --> 00:32:31.003
which I really, really did enjoy. And I teach eighth grade and we always,

00:32:31.143 --> 00:32:33.663
we have like a big dinner dance at the end of the year.

00:32:33.803 --> 00:32:37.943
So I would do, we would just dance and teach them like the YMCA or like what

00:32:37.943 --> 00:32:39.903
any type of dance is. And that was our movement.

00:32:40.083 --> 00:32:44.163
So we're getting ready for the dance. I actually really, I started out, we would walk outside.

00:32:44.703 --> 00:32:48.503
We don't do it anymore. I would walk outside with the kids and then other people

00:32:48.503 --> 00:32:50.863
also started doing it and then it became too much.

00:32:51.063 --> 00:32:54.463
So it had to be stopped. I get it. But I actually really enjoyed it because

00:32:54.463 --> 00:32:57.043
I would walk around and I would talk to, how was your weekend?

00:32:57.183 --> 00:33:01.443
What'd you do? What happened to soccer this weekend? Oh, I remember it was your birthday.

00:33:01.583 --> 00:33:07.803
I would just walk up and down the line and talk to all the kids. We would talk about.

00:33:09.003 --> 00:33:12.023
I would ask them questions. And this one girl, I was like, if you could have

00:33:12.023 --> 00:33:15.603
anything for a pet that was, she was like, Axel Waddle. I was like, what?

00:33:15.763 --> 00:33:18.743
They were obsessed with them. Yes, it's a very big deal. I was like,

00:33:18.783 --> 00:33:23.423
what is that? And she was like, oh, it's this thing and it's this small. And I was like, okay.

00:33:23.623 --> 00:33:26.343
So I was like, when we get inside, let me look and see.

00:33:26.783 --> 00:33:31.123
She would pull it up and show it to me. It was these fun little conversations

00:33:31.123 --> 00:33:32.063
that we would have. But look at that connection.

00:33:32.283 --> 00:33:35.343
That human connection that you were able to make with your students through

00:33:35.343 --> 00:33:40.943
that wasn't like class time. We have to go bell to bell, and there's no getting

00:33:40.943 --> 00:33:42.863
to know the teacher and getting to know the students.

00:33:43.063 --> 00:33:47.103
And when you're managing behaviors the whole period, you can't go on those tangents,

00:33:47.223 --> 00:33:49.483
and you can't break away because the kids can't handle it.

00:33:49.883 --> 00:33:54.043
So then you're just an adult in the front of the room. You're not a three-dimensional

00:33:54.043 --> 00:33:58.063
person. And I think we're losing a lot of that human connection,

00:33:58.783 --> 00:34:03.363
that three-dimensional aspect to you have a family with kids.

00:34:03.443 --> 00:34:07.523
You have a family with kids. They're getting to know you. And I trust that human in front of me.

00:34:07.663 --> 00:34:13.703
Instead of the poor teacher who is up there just trying to get that one kid

00:34:13.703 --> 00:34:17.683
who won't follow directions or these kids who won't pay attention,

00:34:17.923 --> 00:34:19.823
you don't have time for that connection.

00:34:20.123 --> 00:34:23.543
And I'm also a little, you know, concerned because recently we filled out a

00:34:23.543 --> 00:34:27.183
survey and there were questions about like, how, what is your knowledge base

00:34:27.183 --> 00:34:29.883
on trauma-informed education, social-emotional learning?

00:34:30.203 --> 00:34:36.423
And I'm like, I can't, I just, I can't, I can't handle trauma.

00:34:37.438 --> 00:34:40.178
I've been doing this 28 years. I can't handle anything else.

00:34:40.618 --> 00:34:43.858
Well, think of everything that's been put on you in those years.

00:34:44.098 --> 00:34:48.998
Like, literally, I'm trying to, like, I don't, like. Joe, just get a massage. Get a facial.

00:34:49.798 --> 00:34:53.138
Is that what they say? No, no, no, no. They don't say that.

00:34:53.738 --> 00:34:54.818
We've talked about that. But,

00:34:54.878 --> 00:34:58.178
like, and that's, I mean, we've diverted a little bit from technology.

00:34:58.338 --> 00:35:00.678
But that's part of it, though. Like, it's going to be like, oh,

00:35:00.698 --> 00:35:02.898
are we now going to be trained on trauma-informed education?

00:35:03.158 --> 00:35:07.818
Like, I'm not a counselor. Like, I can talk to a kid.

00:35:08.038 --> 00:35:10.098
I can say, hey, is there something wrong? I can have a conversation.

00:35:10.098 --> 00:35:13.678
I can be like, hey, I hear this is happening in another class,

00:35:13.678 --> 00:35:15.478
and I don't like it. You need to change your behavior.

00:35:15.698 --> 00:35:20.878
Like, I can do those things. But I don't have time.

00:35:21.098 --> 00:35:24.438
Like, I have content to deliver. I have things I want to do with my classes.

00:35:24.698 --> 00:35:30.438
And that is yet another, like, I'm treading water as it is. Here's a brick.

00:35:30.838 --> 00:35:35.358
Like, that's literally how I feel. Yeah. And it's true. because I'm just worried

00:35:35.358 --> 00:35:37.038
that we're going to get that coming up soon.

00:35:37.198 --> 00:35:40.858
You know, it's going to be like, yeah, of course. Because the pattern in education

00:35:40.858 --> 00:35:48.058
since I started in the 90s has been I went in, I taught, I made connections with my students, done.

00:35:49.338 --> 00:35:54.318
Every two or three years, another task added, another task added,

00:35:54.798 --> 00:36:00.358
but no increase in pay, no increase in time. Yes.

00:36:00.698 --> 00:36:05.438
And it's become unwieldy. It's become such a.

00:36:06.479 --> 00:36:12.639
A monster with so many tentacles where I'm like, no, wait, but when do I get to teach?

00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:20.159
When do I get to focus on that, filling out 20 IEPs, 50 IEPs?

00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.759
I'm lucky my school gave us a sub for the day to fill them out.

00:36:24.399 --> 00:36:28.599
But then you had to make sub plans and give every class something that would

00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.599
keep them occupied that you then probably had to grade.

00:36:31.979 --> 00:36:37.279
But we've been, make sure you check the Remind app to respond to parents,

00:36:37.399 --> 00:36:41.179
make sure you check email to respond to administrators, make sure you have your

00:36:41.179 --> 00:36:43.299
grades updated in on course.

00:36:43.499 --> 00:36:50.899
And so it's all these things that have been added with no reflection in those added tasks in the pay.

00:36:51.919 --> 00:36:57.219
I've also, we've also, you know, I talked with a friend of mine who teaches

00:36:57.219 --> 00:37:00.499
at one of our high schools and she's overwhelmed.

00:37:00.739 --> 00:37:04.359
I would, I'm speaking for her, but I think she's overwhelmed with the amount

00:37:04.359 --> 00:37:05.619
of grading that she has to do.

00:37:05.759 --> 00:37:11.219
She teaches, you know, college track English as well as AP and has a,

00:37:11.259 --> 00:37:15.939
you know, 22, 25, 28, 30 and 31 students over two semesters.

00:37:16.299 --> 00:37:20.359
Like, that's 60 hours of grading for one essay.

00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:23.279
Easily. I'm not an English teacher, right? So I don't know.

00:37:23.399 --> 00:37:27.879
But like, so teachers are resorting to using like an AI online program to give

00:37:27.879 --> 00:37:29.419
batch feedback to like...

00:37:30.398 --> 00:37:34.878
Are we literally just hitting keys now? Like, I can't even, I don't even have time to like. Is it true?

00:37:34.978 --> 00:37:39.318
Did you read the, like, the state testing this year is going to be scored by AI? It's adaptive.

00:37:39.738 --> 00:37:43.598
Well, first of all, it's adaptive, right? So, like, as you answer certain questions, it'll change.

00:37:44.678 --> 00:37:47.978
And apparently it's going to be graded by AI, I think.

00:37:48.158 --> 00:37:50.658
Awesome. Like, that's another shift that we haven't even talked about yet,

00:37:50.658 --> 00:37:54.778
which we'll be talking about on our Tech Reset episodes. But how do you know you were students?

00:37:55.118 --> 00:38:00.058
So, when I taught AP, I taught honors, sophomores, and then I taught basic skills seniors.

00:38:00.778 --> 00:38:07.958
When I graded their work, I got a picture that developed over the course of

00:38:07.958 --> 00:38:11.718
the year of who that student was, how they were progressing,

00:38:12.018 --> 00:38:14.258
where they needed a little more intervention.

00:38:14.418 --> 00:38:18.678
If I had AI grade that, and I understand it's much quicker.

00:38:18.858 --> 00:38:22.778
I spent weekends and nights and so much time grading.

00:38:23.238 --> 00:38:27.618
But if you came in and asked me about any student in my classes,

00:38:27.618 --> 00:38:33.298
I could say, Oh, he started off like this, and I've seen that his sentence structure has improved.

00:38:33.418 --> 00:38:37.518
His vocabulary is on the way up. He has new depth of analysis.

00:38:38.198 --> 00:38:41.978
And I could talk to the kids at the end of the year before the AP test and say,

00:38:42.178 --> 00:38:43.538
here's where you've improved.

00:38:43.858 --> 00:38:47.958
Here's what we can work on before the test. If AI does that, how do I know?

00:38:49.078 --> 00:38:53.198
You don't. You don't. I'm sorry. I'm looking something up because we've talked

00:38:53.198 --> 00:38:54.798
about. Got out at the right time.

00:38:55.978 --> 00:38:59.898
We've talked about, we had a brief conversation about the book,

00:39:00.018 --> 00:39:02.858
The Digital Delusion, which we, you know, life got in the way.

00:39:03.018 --> 00:39:05.298
This part of it was going to be we were going to read and talk about.

00:39:05.298 --> 00:39:09.018
I know. I saw it in your hand earlier. But I know that Dr.

00:39:09.958 --> 00:39:14.218
Jared Cooney Horvath, Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath, this video has went around because

00:39:14.218 --> 00:39:15.778
he did testify in front of Congress.

00:39:15.978 --> 00:39:20.118
He did. And talked about, you know, one of the themes of the book is how that

00:39:20.118 --> 00:39:24.458
the excessive use of technology in Chromebooks and the ed tech environment that

00:39:24.458 --> 00:39:29.418
we've created has breaks focus, reduces memory, disrupts cognitive development.

00:39:30.258 --> 00:39:35.338
And we're like he wants us to return to like that human centric mode of like

00:39:35.338 --> 00:39:36.498
education and instruction.

00:39:36.738 --> 00:39:40.178
And if you haven't seen the clip of him, which our boss actually sent to us,

00:39:40.298 --> 00:39:44.198
it's an amazing clip of like his testimony in front of Congress saying,

00:39:45.415 --> 00:39:48.615
I mean, I'd love to hear your thoughts on some of the I know you've kind of

00:39:48.615 --> 00:39:51.935
combed through it more than we have, but I've only seen the clip and haven't

00:39:51.935 --> 00:39:56.435
had a chance to dive into the book yet because, you know, I'm busy editing podcasts.

00:39:58.975 --> 00:40:04.995
But I had to do this in pieces because honestly, every page has so much information

00:40:04.995 --> 00:40:07.635
that you're like, we are in so much trouble.

00:40:08.335 --> 00:40:11.835
This and it's not just America. It is worldwide.

00:40:12.015 --> 00:40:17.495
Yeah. We are seeing the decline in math and reading across the world.

00:40:17.715 --> 00:40:22.695
So a lot of people think it's an American problem. It's not. It is across the world.

00:40:22.835 --> 00:40:26.415
But if anybody's, you know, a little bit nervous about the width of this book,

00:40:26.535 --> 00:40:31.495
I put up a little postmark, post it right here, because this is tools,

00:40:31.955 --> 00:40:36.955
the end, letters that you can write to your administration on wanting your child

00:40:36.955 --> 00:40:40.875
to be opted out of, you know, digital work.

00:40:40.875 --> 00:40:44.955
Letters to the board of education how you can advocate for your child and then

00:40:44.955 --> 00:40:47.695
this is all the resources oh my

00:40:47.695 --> 00:40:50.355
goodness that's all like the research and everything this is pretty much,

00:40:51.015 --> 00:40:56.815
the information of the book and but even when you do look through it it it's

00:40:56.815 --> 00:41:05.015
jarring it's really jarring to see what big tech has pushed into the classroom

00:41:05.015 --> 00:41:08.375
i think it's in i forget how many billions of dollars,

00:41:08.535 --> 00:41:11.455
I want to say $88 billion, but I think it's more than that.

00:41:12.215 --> 00:41:15.875
That's how much they have made. And when people have pushed back,

00:41:16.415 --> 00:41:21.415
what he talks about is the fact that, you know, teachers and educators will

00:41:21.415 --> 00:41:23.035
say, this isn't working.

00:41:23.155 --> 00:41:27.415
They're like, we know we have the data on that now and we're fixing it.

00:41:27.575 --> 00:41:32.555
Here's our new program that you can license in perpetuity.

00:41:32.775 --> 00:41:36.095
Yeah, it's, it's, there's just, it's almost...

00:41:37.520 --> 00:41:41.080
What, what, what pains me about it is like, I talked about the arc of my career

00:41:41.080 --> 00:41:44.900
and being working in ed tech and, and not working in ed tech,

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.160
but like getting trained and learning about programs and getting this certification

00:41:48.160 --> 00:41:50.540
and that badge in my email and all those different things.

00:41:50.680 --> 00:41:54.000
But like, and I use this phrase a lot, couldn't see the forest through the trees.

00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.800
Like they're like, yeah, I thought that these things would be,

00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:02.260
you know, game changing, which is a phrase that I hate, uh, and you know,

00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:04.320
really impact the classroom.

00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.940
And I thought in a positive way. And I really think it's more in the negative

00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:10.160
than the positive at this point.

00:42:10.300 --> 00:42:14.000
But we all thought that because it was sold to us.

00:42:14.140 --> 00:42:20.020
There was such mechanism behind the technology machine to sell it to teachers.

00:42:20.140 --> 00:42:25.540
And they had such charismatic people coming in and talking about the way this

00:42:25.540 --> 00:42:29.740
will improve the education and lives of your students.

00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:35.120
We all said, fantastic, because we know the world is changing.

00:42:35.120 --> 00:42:37.640
We know our students will need something different.

00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:41.860
Thank you so much. Yes. And then we got into it and we said...

00:42:42.570 --> 00:42:48.350
This isn't really doing what we wanted it to do, what they said it would do, and what we need it to do.

00:42:48.570 --> 00:42:54.710
I think that when we started, like so many things that we do as humans,

00:42:54.710 --> 00:42:58.170
you just think, like, I'm going to do A, B, and C.

00:42:58.430 --> 00:43:02.510
And you don't always consider, oh, wait, so is everybody else.

00:43:02.990 --> 00:43:07.490
And when it came to the kids, it was everybody else in every single class.

00:43:07.730 --> 00:43:10.470
You know, so you kind of, oh, I can do this, or maybe I'll try that.

00:43:10.470 --> 00:43:17.450
And it just also smashed into how much they were doing at home with it as well.

00:43:18.090 --> 00:43:21.690
And so it was all day long.

00:43:21.870 --> 00:43:26.310
When they started to bring it all the way down to, like my son had an iPad in

00:43:26.310 --> 00:43:31.110
second grade and he's a senior now. So this was, you know, a while ago.

00:43:31.470 --> 00:43:34.990
And he would bring it home sometimes in a Ziploc bag as, you know,

00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:38.890
iPads are safe with your seven-year-olds in a Ziploc bag. And he would bring

00:43:38.890 --> 00:43:41.310
it home and sometimes use it and sometimes, you know, not.

00:43:41.730 --> 00:43:44.290
And it was kind of, oh, OK, what are you doing?

00:43:44.750 --> 00:43:49.550
But he didn't. It wasn't all day long. But I think part of it is it went down

00:43:49.550 --> 00:43:51.650
way too far into the lower grades.

00:43:52.010 --> 00:43:56.530
And like you said, there weren't the skills necessary beforehand.

00:43:57.130 --> 00:44:00.650
And then it became, I'm going to use this program in this program.

00:44:00.810 --> 00:44:05.150
But wait, someone else is going to use them and use them every,

00:44:05.350 --> 00:44:08.070
you know, it wasn't the approach it just

00:44:08.070 --> 00:44:10.710
wasn't done no um it was all too much and i

00:44:10.710 --> 00:44:13.590
remember our boss uh when we were starting to

00:44:13.590 --> 00:44:16.350
talk about no tech and not doing it and and not that

00:44:16.350 --> 00:44:19.250
there was pushback but some teachers were like could we because i think when

00:44:19.250 --> 00:44:23.010
we first did it we did like a month we did like no tech january last year but

00:44:23.010 --> 00:44:26.690
before we were going to do it she's we were talking and we've had and we would

00:44:26.690 --> 00:44:30.710
have some some great talks about technology and implementation and what programs

00:44:30.710 --> 00:44:33.810
people are using and she'd be like just go take a walk down this hallway.

00:44:34.828 --> 00:44:37.888
Just go and look in each class. Take a walk, look in each classroom.

00:44:38.028 --> 00:44:42.028
And it's like every classroom, kids in front of it, like in front of the device, in front of the device.

00:44:42.208 --> 00:44:45.048
And I'm just like, that's kind of eye opening.

00:44:45.348 --> 00:44:50.368
And so that's when I started thinking about, I started scaling things back to previous year, right?

00:44:50.888 --> 00:44:53.748
Where we didn't even use Chromebooks for the first month in the school year.

00:44:53.848 --> 00:44:58.008
We were focusing on executive function, using a planner, how to take notes,

00:44:58.148 --> 00:45:01.888
Cornell notes, like trying to go back to those old school practices, if you will.

00:45:02.768 --> 00:45:06.128
But then like hearing some other teachers talk, it's like, well,

00:45:06.288 --> 00:45:08.368
today we're going to do, they're going to do this book kit and then they're

00:45:08.368 --> 00:45:09.648
going to do a Gimkit tomorrow.

00:45:09.928 --> 00:45:12.568
And then the next day they're going to do a Nearpod and we have the vocabulary.

00:45:12.848 --> 00:45:18.808
It's like, they're literally sitting in front of a screen five days a week and it's all gamification.

00:45:18.908 --> 00:45:22.408
Don't get me started on gamification. I never got rid of a notebook because

00:45:22.408 --> 00:45:27.188
I have a very, I guess it's just a language arts teacher in me.

00:45:27.388 --> 00:45:31.868
I want to see your handwriting and I want to know if I'm giving you an assignment

00:45:31.868 --> 00:45:34.208
I want to identify you with your handwriting.

00:45:34.548 --> 00:45:39.648
I want to know that you're the one who did it and wrote it. And so I never got,

00:45:39.908 --> 00:45:41.268
well, you know, and they'll go on.

00:45:41.628 --> 00:45:45.068
We learn. We learn to decipher. Yes, I can read.

00:45:45.608 --> 00:45:49.668
And there's a boy in my class this year and sometimes we'll swap papers and

00:45:49.668 --> 00:45:53.528
somebody's always like, and I'm like, I know. I will translate. It's fine. I got it.

00:45:53.908 --> 00:45:57.568
You know, and my thing always with handwriting like that is you're going to

00:45:57.568 --> 00:46:02.688
be a doctor because a prerequisite of being a physician is that your handwriting looks like that.

00:46:02.768 --> 00:46:07.888
You know, kind of build them up a little bit. I got one D in my entire academic career. Handwriting?

00:46:08.008 --> 00:46:10.088
In handwriting in the fourth grade.

00:46:10.288 --> 00:46:12.948
Did you go to Catholic school? I did not. I went to public school.

00:46:13.048 --> 00:46:14.888
It was still cursive when I taught public school.

00:46:14.968 --> 00:46:19.968
If my parents tell me one more time that Jersey is adding cursive, they are so excited.

00:46:20.448 --> 00:46:25.868
But it is true. My D was well-deserved though. Like I have horrendous. And I was practicing.

00:46:26.108 --> 00:46:28.848
I just, it wasn't my thing. I never got rid of the notebooks because I felt

00:46:28.848 --> 00:46:34.608
that that was really important. And I do think that there is something for them that is.

00:46:35.432 --> 00:46:41.512
And I think they're a little bit more comfortable thinking it's in my notebook.

00:46:41.752 --> 00:46:44.212
You're the only person who can see it. Right.

00:46:44.612 --> 00:46:48.172
Rather than it's in this digital space that I don't know and what.

00:46:48.712 --> 00:46:54.032
But it also helps quite a bit with cheating. Oh, yeah. And you can hold them completely.

00:46:54.452 --> 00:47:00.392
Yeah. Well, my last year, was it the last two years, I was starting to,

00:47:00.592 --> 00:47:02.992
A, I came out like ChatGPT. Yeah.

00:47:03.292 --> 00:47:09.132
2023, I think it was, December. And I got on and I put in one of my assignments on The Crucible.

00:47:09.392 --> 00:47:13.832
And I said, write a paper about this analysis with The Crucible.

00:47:14.052 --> 00:47:16.152
Use quotes from the play.

00:47:16.632 --> 00:47:23.692
And it popped out a C. It was an average paper. I tried it again in June, six months later.

00:47:24.612 --> 00:47:28.072
The changes that happened in those six months. And I was like,

00:47:28.772 --> 00:47:31.192
oh, okay. The vocabulary is a little high.

00:47:31.392 --> 00:47:33.792
I wouldn't believe, you know, some of my sophomores did this,

00:47:33.892 --> 00:47:38.992
but it probably would have gotten a B because the depth of analysis was more,

00:47:39.292 --> 00:47:42.492
I tried it again the last time and I said, we are cooked.

00:47:42.692 --> 00:47:47.712
We are done. So when I had my seniors, every year they had lit analysis papers

00:47:47.712 --> 00:47:55.652
where they had to examine a theme of a novel that was approved by the College Board for the AP test.

00:47:55.792 --> 00:48:00.332
But they had to get outside sources where they were reading those outside sources,

00:48:00.592 --> 00:48:04.592
those critical analysis essays, and they had to synthesize all of the information

00:48:04.592 --> 00:48:06.732
to prove that it is a book of literary merit.

00:48:07.332 --> 00:48:12.232
Once AI came around, I said, here's the thing. You have this many days to read your book.

00:48:13.196 --> 00:48:17.756
Show me the articles, print them out, show them to me. You will be writing your

00:48:17.756 --> 00:48:20.916
paper every day for five days in class.

00:48:21.676 --> 00:48:24.896
You will turn in the Google Doc so they couldn't edit it.

00:48:25.036 --> 00:48:28.916
I will return it to you the next day. I had GoGuardian open,

00:48:28.916 --> 00:48:31.376
so they were only allowed to have the Google Doc open.

00:48:31.756 --> 00:48:35.576
I looked through their packets to make sure that they weren't pre-writing anything.

00:48:35.776 --> 00:48:41.696
They were the best papers I had gotten in years because they wrote,

00:48:41.696 --> 00:48:45.296
They had questions for me because they couldn't cheat.

00:48:45.416 --> 00:48:49.576
They were thinking they were working hard and the papers were amazing.

00:48:50.016 --> 00:48:53.716
But that's a lot of effort. Yeah. Yes. It's a lot of time.

00:48:53.976 --> 00:48:58.556
And I think we're all, I mean, we're willing to put in the, I mean, depth, not breath.

00:48:58.696 --> 00:49:04.176
Right. So I'm willing to put in the effort and the time because I'd rather them

00:49:04.176 --> 00:49:08.456
gain an understanding for critical thinking and analysis instead of just like,

00:49:08.636 --> 00:49:12.436
how do I get this thing to give me something that's going to get me passed on a grade.

00:49:13.016 --> 00:49:17.056
Like I would, you know, our district blocks all those things on their district devices.

00:49:17.196 --> 00:49:20.136
Of course, they're going to a personal device and using it. Let's not be naive,

00:49:20.136 --> 00:49:24.096
but I'd love for them to be able to be like, okay, let me take this rubric and

00:49:24.096 --> 00:49:29.096
take my project, analyze this and then give me the glows and grows of how I can make this better.

00:49:29.216 --> 00:49:32.056
That's how I've been trying to use it with my own students of like,

00:49:32.176 --> 00:49:33.756
here's what you've done well.

00:49:33.976 --> 00:49:36.596
Here's what you need to improve. Like that we should be using.

00:49:36.896 --> 00:49:39.476
We've talked about this with Tyler when we've had him on assistant,

00:49:39.476 --> 00:49:40.936
not replacement, right? Right, right.

00:49:41.596 --> 00:49:44.256
You know, because there's a lot of people that are out there talking about the

00:49:44.256 --> 00:49:47.496
advent of AI and it's changing education and we need to implement it more.

00:49:47.616 --> 00:49:51.956
But then you have this other across the battlefield, I think,

00:49:52.056 --> 00:49:55.416
which is the faction that we're in that are like, we need to pump the brakes

00:49:55.416 --> 00:49:58.296
on this and teach our students how to do proper critical thinking.

00:49:58.556 --> 00:50:04.836
Because not enough educators are trained on how to use the AI with their students

00:50:04.836 --> 00:50:09.236
to make sure they're using it ethically and effectively.

00:50:09.936 --> 00:50:16.756
Correct. And Pew Research Center just published a survey of AI. I read it yesterday.

00:50:18.121 --> 00:50:23.361
And we're at about 52%. The sample size was only 1,500 students from across the U.S.

00:50:23.461 --> 00:50:29.301
Not incredibly large, but 52% of students said they use it for all their assignments.

00:50:29.661 --> 00:50:33.661
Wow. And we are there. And then when they asked the parents on the survey,

00:50:33.841 --> 00:50:36.801
do you think your child uses AI?

00:50:37.141 --> 00:50:39.361
That number was way lower.

00:50:39.741 --> 00:50:43.781
The parents don't understand it, the way it works, how quickly it can be done.

00:50:43.781 --> 00:50:48.541
The kids are so eager, as you said, to get the grade, to get the assignment

00:50:48.541 --> 00:50:51.941
done so they can get back to doing what's fun, what they want,

00:50:52.161 --> 00:50:59.081
that they are now leaning into it without recognizing, is this information true, first of all?

00:50:59.501 --> 00:51:03.441
Does this match the assignment? Are you learning anything?

00:51:03.581 --> 00:51:08.481
There's no retainment. There's no learning in saying, here's my teacher's prompt.

00:51:08.701 --> 00:51:11.141
Boom. Give me that. Copy, paste. Done. Done.

00:51:12.782 --> 00:51:16.822
I sometimes forget that it exists. Good for you. I mean, genuinely.

00:51:17.202 --> 00:51:20.722
And then someone will say, oh, did you, I had a, I have a biopsy in January

00:51:20.722 --> 00:51:24.582
and someone said, um, you know, you get your portal and then the results are

00:51:24.582 --> 00:51:26.022
in the portal. I'm like, I don't know. Yeah.

00:51:26.362 --> 00:51:29.662
And, um, and it was, oh, put it into chat. Chat will tell you.

00:51:29.782 --> 00:51:31.502
And I was like, oh, right. Chat, I forgot.

00:51:31.702 --> 00:51:36.602
You know, and you do sometimes just get so caught up in what you do or don't

00:51:36.602 --> 00:51:38.522
do that you just, oh, right.

00:51:38.702 --> 00:51:41.502
And I mean, it was able to tell me and I was very grateful that I didn't have

00:51:41.502 --> 00:51:44.882
to wait, you know, the next day until someone called me from the doctor's office,

00:51:45.142 --> 00:51:47.042
but the kids are not forgetting.

00:51:47.642 --> 00:51:51.782
Correct. That's the thing they do remember. Correct. But your brain development

00:51:51.782 --> 00:51:57.082
is also different where you can discern the information or you can switch the

00:51:57.082 --> 00:51:58.842
prompt if it's not working well.

00:51:58.962 --> 00:52:04.042
You can do all of that where what the Pew Research Center was finding in their

00:52:04.042 --> 00:52:06.582
studies was that kids were just copying,

00:52:06.782 --> 00:52:09.862
pasting the assignment and then saying,

00:52:09.862 --> 00:52:13.062
make it sound good but not too good yeah you

00:52:13.062 --> 00:52:16.582
know or there was one that i saw as a high school teacher who

00:52:16.582 --> 00:52:19.382
watched his student do this for another class it was like

00:52:19.382 --> 00:52:22.202
it was a prompt on explaining the harm of

00:52:22.202 --> 00:52:25.602
using ai in society and and

00:52:25.602 --> 00:52:28.682
they wrote the thing and they said like now rewrite

00:52:28.682 --> 00:52:31.402
this with some minor spelling errors that a

00:52:31.402 --> 00:52:34.322
high school junior might make so like they're learning

00:52:34.322 --> 00:52:37.702
how to prompt yes you know yeah um if

00:52:37.702 --> 00:52:40.482
you i'll i'll i'll ask you this as we

00:52:40.482 --> 00:52:43.362
get to towards the end of our episode if you if you were

00:52:43.362 --> 00:52:46.622
and you're not there because you're happily retired and enjoying

00:52:46.622 --> 00:52:53.622
yourself um if you were starting in the classroom tomorrow where would you start

00:52:53.622 --> 00:52:59.442
what do you think you would do to help implement a strategy or a successful

00:52:59.442 --> 00:53:06.042
plan to make sure kids are not like using the technology ethically and effectively,

00:53:06.382 --> 00:53:10.042
but also making sure they're not relying on it to complete work.

00:53:11.153 --> 00:53:16.693
For their classes? That's a great question. And I always started with my students

00:53:16.693 --> 00:53:21.513
every year talking to them about the importance of education and making it as

00:53:21.513 --> 00:53:24.353
relatable as possible before I even got into technology.

00:53:24.553 --> 00:53:27.773
I said, and this might not be the best way to start it, but I said,

00:53:27.873 --> 00:53:30.393
people are going to want to take advantage of you your entire life.

00:53:30.633 --> 00:53:35.633
And if they feel that you don't have an intelligence level where you can defend

00:53:35.633 --> 00:53:39.373
yourself and that is shown through your vocabulary and your communication,

00:53:39.373 --> 00:53:44.953
they are going to try to take advantage of you. So how do you prevent that?

00:53:45.113 --> 00:53:48.633
You prevent that through your learning, your critical thinking,

00:53:48.853 --> 00:53:51.493
your ability to analyze, your ability to make inferences.

00:53:51.673 --> 00:53:57.573
So I did so much of that to get them to buy in to what I was doing in my class.

00:53:57.773 --> 00:54:01.953
And I would say this poem that we're reading from the 1600s that's in the curriculum,

00:54:02.233 --> 00:54:06.653
nobody will ever ask you about this again in your life unless you're on Jeopardy.

00:54:07.173 --> 00:54:12.593
But the skills that you are building and you're learning about a different culture,

00:54:12.773 --> 00:54:17.653
a different time, a different era, all of those come together to make you a

00:54:17.653 --> 00:54:21.193
fully formed person who goes out into the world educated.

00:54:22.173 --> 00:54:25.053
And as soon as you say you don't want people taking advantage,

00:54:25.193 --> 00:54:27.813
nobody's going to take advantage of me because I'm like, all right,

00:54:27.953 --> 00:54:29.513
well, then here's how you do it.

00:54:29.753 --> 00:54:36.313
So before I even got into technology, that's what I told the kids the purpose of the class was.

00:54:36.653 --> 00:54:42.013
Not to read a poem or a short story from this and that, which does help them

00:54:42.013 --> 00:54:43.133
to understand the world.

00:54:43.373 --> 00:54:47.533
It's almost the purpose of any class. Exactly. But that's never really been articulated to kids.

00:54:47.633 --> 00:54:51.313
No, and it's so important to say it. So then when we would use technology,

00:54:51.313 --> 00:54:55.373
I will say, this is an aid. This is not a substitute.

00:54:56.133 --> 00:55:01.313
And I think that's such an important distinction. And again, I photocopied.

00:55:02.412 --> 00:55:06.412
Books. Because a kid sitting in front of a textbook, nothing is happening.

00:55:06.612 --> 00:55:11.372
But if a kid is sitting in front of a packet of a story and they have a highlighter

00:55:11.372 --> 00:55:15.472
and a pen and I say, okay, as I read the first paragraph, underline everything

00:55:15.472 --> 00:55:16.852
that has to do with setting.

00:55:17.472 --> 00:55:22.792
Second paragraph, imagery. Third paragraph, write a question about character.

00:55:23.152 --> 00:55:24.432
Now they're engaged. Yeah.

00:55:26.072 --> 00:55:30.072
No, it's a great it's a great place to start. And I would imagine that your

00:55:30.072 --> 00:55:34.572
students come back to you from college and say, what an advantage.

00:55:34.972 --> 00:55:38.932
They did. Yeah. They said, you know, I got 100 on my first essay in college.

00:55:38.932 --> 00:55:41.932
And they're like, we know it would have gotten an 88 in your class.

00:55:43.092 --> 00:55:47.052
But my professor put a note that said, this is one of the best essays I've ever

00:55:47.052 --> 00:55:49.552
read. Yes. And I was like, let me see it. And they're like, nope.

00:55:50.912 --> 00:55:54.272
No we're gonna stick with that grade because i always

00:55:54.272 --> 00:55:59.452
wanted more from them yeah well jess i mean that's how we feel about you we

00:55:59.452 --> 00:56:04.532
always want more from you yes uh we really again um are so thankful that you

00:56:04.532 --> 00:56:07.612
were able to join us and take the ride up here to new jersey hall of fame for

00:56:07.612 --> 00:56:08.592
this wonderful recording nothing

00:56:08.592 --> 00:56:13.572
like the turnpike i know turnpike on a sunday morning um but yeah it's,

00:56:14.647 --> 00:56:18.707
The content that you create, if you are at any level of teacher,

00:56:18.987 --> 00:56:20.247
you should be following Jess.

00:56:20.927 --> 00:56:25.287
And we're going to put her information in our episode description. Thank you.

00:56:25.607 --> 00:56:29.167
And not just because, like, it's funny and relatable, but because it's also

00:56:29.167 --> 00:56:31.767
a good knowledge base for what's happening out there.

00:56:31.887 --> 00:56:34.927
There's also the stuff you post about, you know, politically,

00:56:35.247 --> 00:56:39.247
about how we should be involved with, you know, making sure we're choosing legislators

00:56:39.247 --> 00:56:43.707
that are going to support what we do in the classroom and make education a better place.

00:56:44.807 --> 00:56:50.047
You know, we didn't get into the political stuff, but that's a big lens to look through. It is.

00:56:50.927 --> 00:56:53.787
But yeah, we can't thank you enough for wanting to join us again.

00:56:53.787 --> 00:56:56.987
So happy to be here. Yeah. We appreciate you so much. Yeah.

00:56:57.267 --> 00:57:01.007
Thank you. You know who else we appreciate? Who? Our presenting sponsor,

00:57:01.007 --> 00:57:04.887
who also is part of the New Jersey Hall of Fame in making sure the teachers

00:57:04.887 --> 00:57:06.507
can go here for free. That's right, free.

00:57:06.707 --> 00:57:09.967
Season three is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Teachers Insurance Plan.

00:57:10.327 --> 00:57:12.587
I'm getting better at segues. Am I getting better at segues?

00:57:12.667 --> 00:57:14.067
Please, we're on it. Check out

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their website that is linked in our episode below for more information.

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And to get a quote, teacher's insurance plan, auto insurance that brings exclusive

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educator savings and exceptional customer care to New Jersey and Pennsylvania

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educational employees.

00:57:27.987 --> 00:57:30.167
So are we going out and doing shopping now? What are we doing?

00:57:30.167 --> 00:57:31.887
I don't think so. We don't think so. Okay.

00:57:32.727 --> 00:57:36.887
Wait, some chocolate shopping? Ferris wheel? Yeah. I'm overwhelmed by this place.

00:57:36.987 --> 00:57:40.287
So I've never been here before. It's a lot of sparkly, shiny things and noises.

00:57:41.147 --> 00:57:43.727
Well, look, thank you very much for joining us. You're welcome.

00:57:43.947 --> 00:57:46.967
We're going to have other episodes coming up in our tech reset theme.

00:57:47.147 --> 00:57:49.307
And we'll see everybody next time in a Bouncing Act podcast.