Navigating Kids, AI & Digital Learning with Merve Lapus: A Tech Reset

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You are listening to The Balancing Act Podcast. Here's your hosts,

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Jamie Wonko and Joe Vitale.

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Hey, folks. Guess what? We are officially recording. Hello, hello,

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and welcome back to The Balancing Act Podcast.

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I am Jamie Wonko here with Mr. Joseph Vitale. Hello. Hello, friend. How are we doing?

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All righty. We are very happy to be having a guest in studio today,

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someone that we have had before.

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Yes. We have talked extensively. This is a continued theme of ours in these

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couple episodes about tech reset.

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We have a great guest who's going to jump in here who, to me,

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is an authority on the parenting aspect of this stuff and how schools can better

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incorporate technology and things like that.

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So, yeah, we're really excited to have him with us. But before we bring him in.

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Oh, we're going to do this before? I mean, we should. Why not? Okay, so here we go.

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So Season 3 is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Teacher's Insurance Plan.

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I know. And Nate, you've described them as the Disney of insurance places.

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They are just so pleasant because we've been calling about some quotes. So pleasant.

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And I think they might be having some homeowner stuff because people always

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talk about the bundling.

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Yes. Might need to check that out. Ooh, a lot. Especially if you've been waiting.

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There's some new stuff coming on the horizon for us as teachers in New Jersey.

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So definitely check them out.

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So without further delay, why don't we bring in our guest for the day? Let's bring him on in.

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Well, hey, special returning guest, Merv LaPousse. It is so good to see you

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again, my brother. How are you?

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Oh, such a pleasure to be back and to be with both you and Jamie again.

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And I especially, Jamie, I am digging the cloth background, the throwback over there.

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He was very much. Thank you very, very much. Somebody finally got it.

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There is so many episodes we have recorded and everyone's like, what is that thing?

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And at least somebody knows about PeeBee's Playhouse. We do not have a secret word.

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Oh, no big explosion of laughter and screaming. We do not.

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Imagine if it was the word technology. Oh, my goodness. We'd all be screaming.

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Make like a hi, make a hi-nie-ho. Oh, my zombie throwback. Yeah. Oh, good.

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I mean, somebody here has probably watched Pee-wee's Christmas movie more than

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any other human being that I know.

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And that is my buddy Jamie, of course. That's true.

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I love that. I mean, when my kids were little in our minivan,

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we had, like, the full box set of Pee Wee's Playhouse.

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Okay. And that would run, like, all the time.

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And it's just something that—and so my husband's uncle, he and I,

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like, have this shared affection for the Playhouse and some of,

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like, even, like, the more darker parts of Paul Rubens.

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Anyway, he gave this to me for Christmas, and I was like, this is perfect for behind my head.

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Oh, it's perfect. I love it. encapsulates our personality for sure.

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So Merv, you're our culminating guest here on our tech reset theme that we've

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had over the last few episodes.

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We've had a bunch of guests on that we've talked about the changing technology

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in the classroom and the difference that what we've seen in our classes.

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And I really want to get your take on it. As I said, when you weren't in the.

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Expert from the parenting perspective, from the common sense media perspective,

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all those things that kind of culminate together in your experience to kind

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of give us a good snapshot as to what,

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society is thinking about what's happening out there with technology,

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especially what it's like in the classroom. So I'm excited to talk to you today, for sure.

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Oh, I appreciate that. I'm like, okay, yeah. Now I feel like,

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all right, I better come. I better come with it. Of course.

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So what do you think to start off with, Merv?

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Why do you think we're seeing such a shift, whether it be administrative policy,

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whether it be politicians talking about it on social media,

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about either the drawback of

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technology or it's focusing on going back to tried and true old practices?

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Why do you think there's this shift in this tech reset moment that we're having right now?

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Yeah well i mean because there is there's there are big conversations right

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now around tech i think i think if we think about the last six years i think there's been this big,

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recognition of tech in the classroom especially after

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lockdown when all this tech funneled in the reality is before that we were doing

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what we could to try and bring more technology into the classroom because it

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held so much promise and there was real opportunity in terms of like scaling

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the different things that we wanted to be able to do and provide in terms of like,

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experiences and access to resources and content to all of our students in ways

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that were only happening in communities that had means, that had money, that had investment.

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And so we wanted to see more technology come into the hands of our kids.

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And then we had this lockdown and then we said, okay, now we need,

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everyone needs access because no one's in the classroom.

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But the way that things rolled out really didn't paint.

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I think the best picture for anyone just kind of seeing it from afar.

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And then it just kind of got stuck in our heads that this is what we assume

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that this is now what education with technology kind of looks like.

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And a lot of educators weren't provided the training. These were all new tools and resources.

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And everyone had, families especially, had this kind of picture of what instruction

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looked like or just didn't look like.

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And then we got back into the classroom, but we didn't necessarily invest in

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our educators, at least across the board, to really look at,

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all right, now let's really think about when do we need it? How are we going to use it?

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And we just kind of maintained in many ways access to these platforms,

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access to kind of tech that had all this promise.

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And we just, we started designing kind of our classroom experiences around it.

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And again, I say that, not that every classroom or every teacher is kind of

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like monolith, but largely we invested in these tools.

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We want to use these tools. And then we started seeing instruction kind of really

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lean in on these tools in some places, though,

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where they did have kind of that investment and did have those forward thinking

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technologists and educators where it wasn't just kind of like IT leading the rollout with tech,

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But it was IT working really closely with instruction on where tech is going

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to be helpful to kind of meet these needs.

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We started to then see where there was more of this shift around how do we reduce

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where technology is needed because we're trying to meet certain outcomes.

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And then where do we lean on it to meet certain needs?

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But that was in very small pockets.

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What didn't change was this bigger conversation then where we started seeing

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heightened conversations around our kids' well-being.

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We started then seeing technology explode, like with AI and kind of what AI could do.

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And a lot of folks still had no idea what that all meant.

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We were still dealing with the ramifications of what we were seeing with social media.

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And now we're seeing that social media is connected to devices,

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devices that are in all of our classrooms, and then we're seeing expanded issues

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around well-being issues,

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well then, if we need to solve well-being, we need to solve the issues going

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on with our kids, we should just remove the devices, especially cell phones.

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But why stop at cell phones?

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We should just be questioning technology as a whole, not recognizing that there are really great...

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Great case studies of schools that are finding when you use technology or when

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you've planned out where technology

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is an effective part of the learning experience, it is a valuable,

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valuable opportunity for learning and for scaling learning to meet the needs

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of every different child.

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But when we just kind of think of it as a whole, it is kind of this blunt response

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around some of our big fears that we are seeing as parents, as educators,

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but especially as families these, you know,

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my kids, or I'm hearing that kids have this kind of negative or even challenging,

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perspective around where their future is.

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And in that future, you know, it's making them sadder.

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It's, it's cause I'm, I'm concerned for their wellbeing and I'm hearing everything

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about my kids and their issues and the challenges around their mental health.

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And it is social media, it is the phone.

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And then you have this really compelling book that comes out that really kind

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of encompasses all of that through the anxious generation.

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And so this, regardless of the, because there's a lot of talk right now around the.

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The data behind what fuels kind of like the book itself and just the sentiment around it.

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So regardless of all that, there is real sentiment. As a parent,

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I am concerned for my kids and their well-being.

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I am concerned with looking at working in this space.

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I see how algorithms work. I see how dark patterns are created.

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I have concern for my kids. And so then to recognize that they're all coming

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out of these devices, oh, maybe the solution is remove the device,

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we solve the issue. But it's far more complicated than that.

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But I think we are looking.

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That's something we talked about when we were texting back and forth,

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talking about this conversation. It was hammer versus scalpel, right?

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Yeah, yeah. We're going to sledgehammer everything, or are we going to delicately

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remove or create some better safeguards for our kids in the classroom and our

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kids at home regarding...

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It's not just the device, it's also the access that they have on those devices

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to the multiple platforms that they're all on, whether it be social media and

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all the different ways that they're able to access the world.

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I mean, that's the scary part to me.

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Yeah. I just got an email today. I was out of school and got an email that a

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student figured out a way to cheat using Canva, which is something that,

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you know, and so he was copying and handwriting things.

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But from Canva, you know, so there's, there's, it's too much.

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It's impossible for us to be able to even keep up with what they can figure out to not do something.

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And just recently, my kids were at a, you know, a college info day and they

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were going to different major programs. And one of the parents stood up and

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asked, you know, what is the school's policy on AI?

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And we don't know the, the, I don't, I wasn't at that session when I heard my

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wife was actually letting me know, but the, the response was it's a work in progress, right?

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Cause I don't think anybody knows like, and this is at the college level, right?

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We want to show them how to use it ethically and effectively to teach kids.

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This was in the education department, by the way. Right. So it's like teaching the

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future teachers how to use these tools because the kids

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that they're going to teach are going to be using them but how do we teach them

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how to use them ethically in in

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the most responsible way and i've said it a hundred times on this show uh assistant

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rather than replacement right yeah i don't like there's no blueprint right now

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because the target is constantly moving i think that's the most challenging

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part for me as an educator i would say honestly as well that what you're saying is 100 right.

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Unfortunately, what we're saying is nuance. And nuance isn't sexy,

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but like, ban phones, save our children.

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That resonates. That's super sexy, right? It's like, oh man,

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I'm for that. It's speaking to me.

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But at the same time, being on the other, you know, recognizing the other side,

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recognizing just kind of the work we put into education and the work that we put in to, like,

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finding effective ways for instruction and for learning and being able to identify

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just the varying needs that each one of our students have.

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On top of that, we've got reduction in funding coming into schools.

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We've got schools closing. We have bigger classrooms. And we're saying we don't

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want any of these tools. Like it's, it's, it's not, so I think there's a pragmatic reality.

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And then there's also, how do we make sure that we are communicating and over

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communicating why these tools have real opportunity advantages alignment for

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that learning when provided the right space, time, and even investment in that kind of training.

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I think largely, though, one of the things in this discussion is not having

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the device around doesn't solve the remaining 15 hours in their day, right?

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Whether it's a ban or not a ban, the single most important thing that we can

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be doing is to help our kids learn how to navigate with agency and understanding

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these kind of emerging digital realities and these digital habits.

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And that means recognizing things.

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That there is an understanding of how to use the tool and understanding the

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impact of these kinds of tools regardless of the tool itself.

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And if we only remove the technology or say that moving the technology is going

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to solve all the issues, well, one, we're not preparing our kids for a future

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where this is very much a big part of their lives.

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And two, we're actually not building them with the right dispositions of skills

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and the attitudes and how to navigate things that have real impact,

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both at home and then back into the classroom.

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And some of the things don't always, I think there's been this shift of,

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well, we don't really have to have technology classes anymore because the kids

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just know how to do it, which isn't true. They don't.

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And then there are some other like life, like basic life skills that are lost

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in what I think people assume they can do, handle, control, understand.

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We had, we've been helping my in-laws lately and I have twins that are 13.

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And I said to one of them, which I would have assumed would have been a really

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easy task for her, everybody that's here helping move today,

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I want you to go around and I want you to ask everybody what they want for lunch.

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And I want you to call the deli.

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Here's the name of the deli. I want you to call the deli. And I want you to

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put the order in for her lunch, you know, for everybody's lunch.

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She was like, what? And so I repeated it.

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And she's kind of like my, like, you know, fastest of the three kids.

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And she said well how do i find

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the phone number right and and

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she's a very bright child it's not i so

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we're sort of getting ahead of like wow i don't you know i hear the older my

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my parents are like 80 i don't know they they often will say look at them they

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have it they just boom and they do and they move and they it's like what they're

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doing isn't really hard or tricky and they don't No,

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you know, I always said, imagine, you know, picture any four-year-old with an

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iPad and you understand when someone has no experience with work because that

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object really doesn't have any value,

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like real value of if they break it, they don't get how much money that costs, you know?

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And so the idea of like the older generation being confused about how much they

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can do because they're not afraid of it, but then the older people they are.

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And it's like, but we're not, they're still missing out on so many real life,

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Yeah. You need to be able to call a deli and order a lunch for time to eat ball.

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That's, that's the, you know, that's kind of the next almost great segue for

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the next part of our conversation.

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Like how we can support our kids in this tech, tech infused world.

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Right. Right. It's like, and I've, you know, we've talked about this.

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I have twins. They're on their way to college.

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And you both have twins. Yeah. We do.

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I didn't even read. Yeah. I think you got, you might've mentioned it a few minutes.

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I just didn't connect. He has, he has boy, girl twins that are seniors in high

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school. I have a son that's also a senior in high school, but he's not one of the, he's not a twin.

00:16:45.070 --> 00:16:50.630
And then I have twin girls that are in eighth grade. And I am a boy-girl twin, but I am the boy.

00:16:51.590 --> 00:16:56.770
So my, you know, kids, we've, like, my daughter would be like,

00:16:56.870 --> 00:16:59.710
I'm going to be 18 soon. I'm going to be on my own. I'm blah, blah.

00:17:00.716 --> 00:17:01.976
Hey, what's your social security number?

00:17:04.596 --> 00:17:08.696
That's the end of the conversation. Like, now I say that tongue in cheek,

00:17:08.796 --> 00:17:10.536
right? She's a bright kid, but it's the same thing.

00:17:10.636 --> 00:17:13.016
We started doing that a long time ago, Gene, where it's like,

00:17:13.116 --> 00:17:14.976
you need to call, you need to make an appointment.

00:17:15.156 --> 00:17:17.656
You want to, you have your friends over for your birthday. You have to order

00:17:17.656 --> 00:17:19.416
a birthday cake. How do you order a birthday cake?

00:17:19.696 --> 00:17:25.236
Like, it's literally those little things. How do you order a meal by calling the deli?

00:17:25.476 --> 00:17:28.616
Like, I said, what's your credit score? Like, what's that?

00:17:29.376 --> 00:17:33.836
Why is that even important? Yes. But if you flip that and go down,

00:17:34.016 --> 00:17:40.016
my sister teaches kindergarten and the average kindergarten child no longer

00:17:40.016 --> 00:17:43.196
knows their address or one person's phone number.

00:17:43.536 --> 00:17:49.136
Yeah. And so we're seeing this in so many overlapping spaces.

00:17:49.556 --> 00:17:53.316
What do you mean nobody taught you what your address? You know,

00:17:53.456 --> 00:17:55.236
so there are certain things like

00:17:55.236 --> 00:17:58.396
the social security number that starts to happen when you're adulting.

00:17:58.536 --> 00:18:02.496
But then we're also eliminating basic information.

00:18:02.816 --> 00:18:09.516
And I know that for myself. I only know the phone numbers of people that existed in my life before.

00:18:10.376 --> 00:18:17.716
Right? I mean, I just know a few. And my three kids each have a phone number. I could not tell you.

00:18:18.696 --> 00:18:22.516
My son's recently, because so many applications and so many things are going

00:18:22.516 --> 00:18:24.396
out. And he's like, Mom, I know.

00:18:24.516 --> 00:18:27.116
Okay, now I kind of know it. Do you want to know my best friend from high school's

00:18:27.116 --> 00:18:28.496
phone number? Because I still know it.

00:18:29.056 --> 00:18:32.736
Right. I could actually recite the answering machine message.

00:18:33.756 --> 00:18:38.636
Because his dad had an answering machine for the New Brunswick Symphony Orchestra.

00:18:40.036 --> 00:18:44.936
Shout out Joe if you're listening. But yeah, it's so funny to me.

00:18:45.156 --> 00:18:48.616
I had a minor procedure on my knee a couple days ago.

00:18:48.676 --> 00:18:50.496
And they were like, oh, who's here with you? I was like, oh,

00:18:50.536 --> 00:18:55.716
my mother-in-law happens to be here today. because my wife was traveling and

00:18:55.716 --> 00:18:57.416
they were like, oh, what's her phone number? And I was like.

00:18:58.303 --> 00:19:00.983
Uh give me a second i had to look at my because i had no idea i had to

00:19:00.983 --> 00:19:04.243
look at my phone i think i still have 10 good numbers in my head that i can

00:19:04.243 --> 00:19:08.563
book but i used to have like i feel like 50 like i could have called everybody

00:19:08.563 --> 00:19:13.683
anyways yeah so it's like how so how do we help them that's our question for

00:19:13.683 --> 00:19:18.863
you right because yeah i so i want to ask you one more thing i'm sorry to to no words

00:19:19.223 --> 00:19:22.043
we had a uh i had a friend of mine the other day called me

00:19:22.043 --> 00:19:25.703
for some advice and she's like hey like i hate

00:19:25.703 --> 00:19:28.563
these other parents she's like i i my daughter's 11

00:19:28.563 --> 00:19:32.243
and everybody's got a phone and now i need

00:19:32.243 --> 00:19:35.243
like am i what am i getting my daughter a phone like is 11

00:19:35.243 --> 00:19:38.103
years old too young and i'm like ah but like

00:19:38.103 --> 00:19:40.803
it's when she says i hate the other parents she

00:19:40.803 --> 00:19:43.743
doesn't but it's like because the other parents have already given their kids phones

00:19:43.743 --> 00:19:46.523
then it's the fomo right yeah how do

00:19:46.523 --> 00:19:50.343
you have that conversation with your kid about because they

00:19:50.343 --> 00:19:52.943
they want to see the intrinsic value of all my friends have it

00:19:52.943 --> 00:19:55.803
i want to have it what what does that conversation look

00:19:55.803 --> 00:19:59.063
like so yeah anyway so a couple

00:19:59.063 --> 00:20:02.563
things here in this discussion i

00:20:02.563 --> 00:20:06.443
think one is i think there are credible um

00:20:06.443 --> 00:20:09.943
opportunities and reasons where we should actually like yeah let's we don't

00:20:09.943 --> 00:20:14.703
really need devices and early learning like we should actually just focus on

00:20:14.703 --> 00:20:18.683
the kids interactions and bringing and we can have discussions about devices

00:20:18.683 --> 00:20:23.243
without having them centered in the learning i I think there's some real credence

00:20:23.243 --> 00:20:25.663
to that idea when we're thinking about like K2.

00:20:26.063 --> 00:20:30.423
You know, and even K3 of like, when do we actually introduce one in the learning space itself?

00:20:31.023 --> 00:20:35.423
But really, our focus should be on these really fundamental human skills, right?

00:20:35.963 --> 00:20:39.563
I think it's also recognizing the human behind these gifts.

00:20:39.743 --> 00:20:43.843
I think that's one of the things that Common Sense has been focused on for our

00:20:43.843 --> 00:20:47.143
entirety as we look at our curriculum and the way that we bring kind of activities

00:20:47.143 --> 00:20:49.043
and resources. We want to center it on real skills.

00:20:50.436 --> 00:20:53.416
On students, on families, because

00:20:53.416 --> 00:20:56.716
the reality is it's more than just understanding how to use the tool.

00:20:56.896 --> 00:21:01.656
It's recognizing the impact of these tools and how it might lead you to actually

00:21:01.656 --> 00:21:04.936
using it. And then what are the ramifications of that?

00:21:05.216 --> 00:21:12.856
And there is a real feeling disposition behind why we might feel the need.

00:21:12.956 --> 00:21:19.316
Like, why do we feel this FOMO around, I'm the only one that doesn't have a

00:21:19.316 --> 00:21:20.796
device, right? It's a feeling of belonging.

00:21:20.996 --> 00:21:24.696
So are there ways that we circumvent this feeling of not belonging?

00:21:25.056 --> 00:21:28.836
That's something to explore. Maybe that is what's all. I'll talk about my own children.

00:21:29.056 --> 00:21:33.076
My children don't have, so I've got a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old. They're not twins.

00:21:33.556 --> 00:21:36.916
Oftentimes people tell me that they look like twins, but they're not.

00:21:37.116 --> 00:21:40.996
So they got two years separation, but one year separation in class.

00:21:42.276 --> 00:21:47.716
And they don't have social media. They're really the only ones in their friend

00:21:47.716 --> 00:21:48.916
group that doesn't have social media.

00:21:49.496 --> 00:21:52.796
And we've heard all the reasons for why they want to be on it.

00:21:52.996 --> 00:21:57.556
And I've recognized those are all very valuable, valid reasons.

00:21:57.996 --> 00:22:01.876
Now, when we get down to what you really want out of it, you don't want to feel

00:22:01.876 --> 00:22:04.416
like you're missing out on inside jokes on certain things.

00:22:04.816 --> 00:22:10.536
You feel like the way that they connect with each other and are able to be in

00:22:10.536 --> 00:22:12.816
spaces where they can have these kinds of conversations. You want to be able

00:22:12.816 --> 00:22:14.516
to have those same kinds of things.

00:22:14.696 --> 00:22:16.976
And you want to be able to kind of explore areas of creativity,

00:22:17.736 --> 00:22:19.296
areas kind of exploration.

00:22:20.176 --> 00:22:21.616
And my big fears are.

00:22:22.637 --> 00:22:27.317
Your young women, your young girls, your girls, your teenagers,

00:22:27.657 --> 00:22:31.997
but you're going to be positioned as a young woman for things that you're likely not ready for.

00:22:32.177 --> 00:22:35.637
You're going to be measured as if they're going to talk to you as if you are

00:22:35.637 --> 00:22:36.777
a young woman and you're not.

00:22:37.117 --> 00:22:39.037
And I don't want you to.

00:22:39.457 --> 00:22:42.977
Hearing it once or twice is one thing. Having it be a part of your daily routine

00:22:42.977 --> 00:22:45.837
is not okay. It starts to mess with you, right?

00:22:45.997 --> 00:22:49.037
And I don't want you to have to deal with that because it's already hard enough

00:22:49.037 --> 00:22:51.717
just going through adolescence and being a teenager, right?

00:22:51.757 --> 00:22:55.477
And so I have these very honest conversations with them and say, okay,

00:22:55.677 --> 00:22:59.657
so here's my solution to how we can try and find the things you need,

00:22:59.817 --> 00:23:06.857
but still recognize that there are areas where I want to center you as a person

00:23:06.857 --> 00:23:13.017
and not you as one of many who are all just trying to stay connected in this world.

00:23:13.297 --> 00:23:18.197
And so we fell on in their phones.

00:23:18.257 --> 00:23:21.257
They have access to their text messaging, so there's a way for them to communicate

00:23:21.257 --> 00:23:25.037
there. and then they have access to Pinterest right now.

00:23:25.637 --> 00:23:31.317
And in that way, there's certain settings that we put up where they're not posting

00:23:31.317 --> 00:23:34.357
anything, but they're curating the things and they're finding the things.

00:23:34.477 --> 00:23:37.057
They're still being served up with some algorithmic suggestions,

00:23:37.217 --> 00:23:40.517
but it's not the same as like the TikToks or the Snapchats.

00:23:40.617 --> 00:23:44.897
And so we're exploring these things together.

00:23:45.057 --> 00:23:46.637
They're learning about them. They're hearing things from their friends.

00:23:46.737 --> 00:23:47.637
They're searching it on there.

00:23:47.857 --> 00:23:53.277
And so it's giving them exposure to the same kind of topics.

00:23:54.237 --> 00:23:57.917
Memes, and things that they're talking about every day. But just...

00:23:58.646 --> 00:24:04.586
Not necessarily exposing them to the full power of kind of the algorithms and the patterns.

00:24:04.726 --> 00:24:08.466
But we still have to navigate, you know, the timeless scroll.

00:24:08.786 --> 00:24:15.426
I mean, that is still a part of it. That is something I navigate for myself.

00:24:15.866 --> 00:24:18.566
So those are conversations we still very much have to have.

00:24:19.066 --> 00:24:24.006
But getting them some access to these things is what we navigated.

00:24:24.006 --> 00:24:30.086
I've had some knee-jerk reactions over the last couple months with a lot of

00:24:30.086 --> 00:24:33.926
different things, and I don't want to get political or talk about political

00:24:33.926 --> 00:24:38.066
stuff, but we had a Charlie Kirk that got assassinated, right? Yeah.

00:24:39.586 --> 00:24:42.886
And I was actually playing golf with my son when I had heard about it,

00:24:42.926 --> 00:24:47.086
and one of my friends actually texted me and said, oh, my son just showed me

00:24:47.086 --> 00:24:52.126
the video that he saw from somebody else that was sent to him via Instagram,

00:24:52.126 --> 00:24:53.186
and his son is a freshman.

00:24:53.186 --> 00:24:58.666
And I immediately texted my friend and I said, do not let him share that video.

00:24:58.906 --> 00:25:02.446
Do not put that out on social media. Do not have him send that to his friends.

00:25:02.686 --> 00:25:07.626
Like, like I was, and there was no way for me to control zero way for me to control that.

00:25:07.726 --> 00:25:11.506
I was so concerned for my friend's son that like he was going to send it out

00:25:11.506 --> 00:25:14.266
and somebody was going to see it who maybe didn't want to be exposed to that.

00:25:14.386 --> 00:25:16.186
And then it was going to become a thing.

00:25:16.806 --> 00:25:20.026
And, you know, granted it was everywhere. It was horrible, regardless of what

00:25:20.026 --> 00:25:23.566
your opinion is. Right. Yeah. It was just so like jarring.

00:25:24.026 --> 00:25:29.526
And I didn't want that to be like a moment for him to like have a really tough

00:25:29.526 --> 00:25:33.086
learning lesson about why I should not share things that my friend sent me.

00:25:33.326 --> 00:25:37.426
I immediately had this knee-jerk protective like reaction to that.

00:25:37.706 --> 00:25:40.766
And I have that with my own children. My son was like, I was like,

00:25:40.886 --> 00:25:44.266
do not share anything about that. Have you ever thought, I work in education,

00:25:44.286 --> 00:25:46.326
why is finding a job so weirdly hard?

00:25:46.586 --> 00:25:50.166
Yeah, scrolling through random job boards where half the listings don't even

00:25:50.166 --> 00:25:51.966
make sense is not the vibe.

00:25:52.186 --> 00:25:55.186
That's why njschooljobs.com actually makes sense.

00:25:55.711 --> 00:25:58.971
It's a job board built specifically for New Jersey schools, public,

00:25:59.291 --> 00:26:00.951
private, charter, and parochial.

00:26:01.091 --> 00:26:04.351
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00:26:04.351 --> 00:26:07.091
If your job involves a bell schedule, this site's for you.

00:26:07.271 --> 00:26:11.291
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00:26:11.411 --> 00:26:13.191
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00:26:13.331 --> 00:26:18.531
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00:26:18.771 --> 00:26:23.371
They also host virtual job fairs where you can connect with multiple districts online.

00:26:23.391 --> 00:26:27.771
No driving all over the state. Those are coming up soon, so check the link in

00:26:27.771 --> 00:26:29.471
our episode description to register.

00:26:29.731 --> 00:26:32.571
Head to njschooljobs.com.

00:26:34.538 --> 00:26:37.558
So i i you know

00:26:37.558 --> 00:26:40.578
that's me being overprotective but it's also because i'm

00:26:40.578 --> 00:26:44.258
like i'm scared like yeah yeah yeah to describe

00:26:44.258 --> 00:26:47.058
it that's just i mean i did the same thing as soon as i heard i text

00:26:47.058 --> 00:26:50.758
my girls i'm like there are videos going around right now of this

00:26:50.758 --> 00:26:54.638
individual who we we've talked about before um you

00:26:54.638 --> 00:26:58.118
know being killed and it's it's it's very violent and

00:26:58.118 --> 00:27:01.218
regardless of the things that we've seen and some of like your you

00:27:01.218 --> 00:27:04.998
know movies that we like to watch together and everything the difference is

00:27:04.998 --> 00:27:07.998
this is a real person and not something that you know as a movie it hits differently

00:27:07.998 --> 00:27:12.678
and the response back for my oldest at least again she's 15 she was like too

00:27:12.678 --> 00:27:16.058
late like my friend showed me and she's like i was like we'll talk about it

00:27:16.058 --> 00:27:19.358
when we get home i'm like are you okay she's like no i'm fine but like let's

00:27:19.358 --> 00:27:20.618
definitely talk about it i'm like oh,

00:27:21.238 --> 00:27:23.978
yeah jeez i know you know it's it's so crazy to think

00:27:23.978 --> 00:27:26.818
like you had that almost the exact same experience it's

00:27:26.818 --> 00:27:29.598
like your daughter already had it in her inbox even before you were able to say

00:27:29.598 --> 00:27:32.358
anything it's almost like hey who could be the first one to

00:27:32.358 --> 00:27:35.278
send it and get it out to everybody well right now i

00:27:35.278 --> 00:27:38.138
mean i've been having a lot of i've been doing a lot of kind of interviews and phone calls recently

00:27:38.138 --> 00:27:41.138
because of the five nights at epstein's game that's like going around

00:27:41.138 --> 00:27:44.918
are you familiar with five nights at epstein's are you familiar with five nights

00:27:44.918 --> 00:27:48.618
at freddy's i am i don't know if i want to know about five nights at epstein's

00:27:48.618 --> 00:27:52.538
but yeah this is something that parents might need to be aware of so yeah yeah

00:27:52.538 --> 00:27:56.618
so you know i mean this is not new like at least well not new in the sense of

00:27:56.618 --> 00:27:58.998
like we've always played parody games right.

00:27:59.738 --> 00:28:04.198
Even in our you know generation but especially now you can create parodies of

00:28:04.198 --> 00:28:06.298
different games and Five Nights at Freddy's is a very popular game.

00:28:07.238 --> 00:28:10.278
When everything was going on with the whole Diddy case there was a Five Nights

00:28:10.278 --> 00:28:13.998
at Diddy's game it was a parody of Five Nights at Freddy's but it was about trying to get away from.

00:28:15.084 --> 00:28:18.384
And now this one is Five Nights at Epstein's, and it's essentially,

00:28:18.424 --> 00:28:21.644
you're trying to get away from Epstein.

00:28:22.044 --> 00:28:24.824
And it's like, you know, the levels are to get away from him,

00:28:24.884 --> 00:28:27.884
you have to call his attention by sounding like a little girl screaming in the

00:28:27.884 --> 00:28:30.624
distance so that it can get his attention.

00:28:30.824 --> 00:28:35.084
And like, this is rooted in real victims.

00:28:36.564 --> 00:28:40.404
And then like, the second level is like, you have to get away from the president,

00:28:40.704 --> 00:28:43.784
literally, like, because he's like level two.

00:28:43.784 --> 00:28:47.224
Too um and it goes through this level can we go

00:28:47.224 --> 00:28:50.444
back to like mario brothers can everybody just like yes but

00:28:50.444 --> 00:28:56.244
i'm gonna say that i'm gonna say this especially because i so my girls are 13

00:28:56.244 --> 00:29:00.664
and they i kind of for a while was i mean they i did give them phones and they

00:29:00.664 --> 00:29:03.824
went to middle school but um it was around the same time that my son you know

00:29:03.824 --> 00:29:06.944
they were going to be like walking and traveling and all the things right um

00:29:06.944 --> 00:29:09.184
and and being responsible um.

00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.740
For for that but um he i

00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:16.540
just felt like i don't want you to have any social media so i

00:29:16.540 --> 00:29:19.520
kept them away and then for a while it was like oh maybe when you're 13 because

00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:23.600
like technically that's like the legal age you know um and then they got to

00:29:23.600 --> 00:29:29.840
13 last summer and i was like you know what no we're not you know no and um

00:29:29.840 --> 00:29:34.560
and so now as like you know of they're approaching 14 i still feel like probably

00:29:34.560 --> 00:29:38.740
not i because i just don't think that there's anything that you know will suit them.

00:29:38.900 --> 00:29:44.420
But like you, they have certain friends or things that they hear.

00:29:44.520 --> 00:29:47.080
And so I've always said, please ask me.

00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:49.660
If there's something that someone says or something that's happening and you

00:29:49.660 --> 00:29:52.700
don't know what it is, please don't Google it. That's always been my role in this house.

00:29:52.860 --> 00:29:56.400
Please don't Google it because, oh boy, like who knows what you're going to

00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.540
see or get, right? And I want to give you the explanation of it.

00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:03.880
And so there's been things that could make anybody's cheeks turn read of like

00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:05.900
flat out answers that I have given them.

00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:10.940
But recently we were talking about, I guess at school, and I'm going to ask

00:30:10.940 --> 00:30:15.040
them honestly, like they didn't use the phrase of this, but they have mentioned Epstein.

00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:18.220
There's been like these sort of keywords, right, that have come up.

00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:24.480
And we had this really long talk recently about the history of the mistreatment

00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:29.540
of women and in particular with girls, uh.

00:30:30.040 --> 00:30:34.500
When, when they reach womanhood or what that meant throughout history and how

00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:38.280
girls could have been, you know, the minute you are, you get your period,

00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.220
you're a woman and you can be given as a bride. Yes.

00:30:42.600 --> 00:30:46.880
And so this is like historically like, and they're looking at me and I can see

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.520
them like thinking about it and trying to understand it.

00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:52.960
And, you know, and I said, when we're talking about certain things in history,

00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.820
we can't always say what happened 400 years ago because people were living in

00:30:57.820 --> 00:31:00.540
a different way, right? They were dead by 40.

00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.500
You know, so we're trying to, I'm trying to relate some of these things to them.

00:31:03.820 --> 00:31:08.020
But at the same time, they have an understanding of why that's wrong,

00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:13.920
why it's so inappropriate. And now that we understand what the age of consent is and what that means.

00:31:15.283 --> 00:31:20.183
How that changes the lens of what we're talking about now, you know,

00:31:20.343 --> 00:31:25.403
trying to kind of give them that talk in between like misogyny and the patriarchy

00:31:25.403 --> 00:31:28.143
and just all of those things.

00:31:28.483 --> 00:31:33.203
And at the same time, like, and again, this is the reason why you will continue

00:31:33.203 --> 00:31:37.643
not to be on social media because they're right. And it's and they're like, yeah. Yeah.

00:31:37.803 --> 00:31:42.083
And honestly, there are things it's like you, once your innocence is gone and

00:31:42.083 --> 00:31:46.943
that sort of glass is shattered, you really, it's very, very difficult to ever,

00:31:47.203 --> 00:31:50.783
you know, I would say to them, being an adult can be a real drag, you know.

00:31:51.043 --> 00:31:55.003
So you'll have plenty of time for that when you're, you know,

00:31:55.823 --> 00:31:59.123
plenty of time for mindless scrolling if you so choose when you get older.

00:31:59.363 --> 00:32:04.603
But there are those interconnections. And it is, to me, still a male-female.

00:32:04.603 --> 00:32:09.203
Now, there's just a greater concern, even just in my own home,

00:32:09.663 --> 00:32:12.463
between having a boy and my girls.

00:32:12.583 --> 00:32:16.943
And even the statistics on eating disorders and body image issues and all of

00:32:16.943 --> 00:32:18.883
those types of things. Yeah.

00:32:19.383 --> 00:32:22.623
And it's starting to shift because even young men are going through a whole

00:32:22.623 --> 00:32:24.543
thing right now around their body image.

00:32:25.303 --> 00:32:28.683
But the whole, like, looks-maxing thing. I've seen some of that,

00:32:28.803 --> 00:32:31.903
yeah. Yeah. Crazy. It is.

00:32:33.903 --> 00:32:36.023
And I mean, I guess I'm kind of,

00:32:37.702 --> 00:32:42.142
I guess I'm lucky. I mean, my kids are, you know, about to be graduating, go to high school.

00:32:42.322 --> 00:32:46.042
They have good tools in their toolbox to know, like, what should I be paying

00:32:46.042 --> 00:32:48.602
attention to and what should I not be paying attention to? But I worry.

00:32:48.742 --> 00:32:51.202
Like, I worry about them. I worry about what their experience.

00:32:51.462 --> 00:32:55.642
Like, hey, I just learned something new from Merv that I didn't want to learn before. Thanks, buddy.

00:32:56.842 --> 00:33:00.482
Or in my gut, I'm like, I bet you if I say something, they'll be like,

00:33:00.562 --> 00:33:02.882
yeah, we know. Yeah, we know. Yeah, totally.

00:33:03.542 --> 00:33:06.642
But the difference, though, Jane, is they probably know that that's not appropriate.

00:33:06.762 --> 00:33:09.982
They probably know like i'm not getting involved with that like definitely

00:33:09.982 --> 00:33:13.022
yeah like there's a difference where some kids will be playing that

00:33:13.022 --> 00:33:17.802
you know and thinking it's it's funny yeah and fun and laughing and yeah yeah

00:33:17.802 --> 00:33:22.302
not necessarily connecting the you know the reality of like real victims going

00:33:22.302 --> 00:33:25.882
through this and it's more on i hear people i hear this on the news now there's

00:33:25.882 --> 00:33:30.442
a game oh i'm and it's five nights at freddy's this is hilarious you know and

00:33:30.442 --> 00:33:32.122
and i've spent all year You know,

00:33:32.222 --> 00:33:34.782
I spent this year worried about,

00:33:34.962 --> 00:33:39.142
you know, what's been being talked about in out in the world and,

00:33:39.182 --> 00:33:42.802
you know, about all the political stuff that's been going on.

00:33:42.942 --> 00:33:47.142
And I teach seventh grade and I teach civics and this is in the news a lot about,

00:33:47.302 --> 00:33:50.342
you know, the files and what's going to be released and what's going to be talked about.

00:33:50.522 --> 00:33:54.282
And I try myself not to pay too much attention. I try to focus on,

00:33:54.422 --> 00:33:58.842
you know, what I focus on in my class, like constitution, three branches of

00:33:58.842 --> 00:34:01.602
government. I try to, we talk about current events, but not in a,

00:34:01.642 --> 00:34:03.982
in a huge way, but no one has brought it up.

00:34:04.202 --> 00:34:07.242
That's, that's the, I'm sure the kids know, but nobody has ever asked them,

00:34:07.322 --> 00:34:10.922
Hey, I heard this and not in a disrespectful way or a funny way.

00:34:11.002 --> 00:34:13.102
Like no one's ever asked a question. Like I heard this on the news.

00:34:13.202 --> 00:34:15.302
What is that? Like no one has ever has said a word.

00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:21.740
Yeah. So, and that's also, like, I don't want to say troublesome,

00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.600
but I kind of, like, would want to know what they know about it.

00:34:25.820 --> 00:34:28.660
So then this way we can address any misconceptions that they might have.

00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:32.700
So it doesn't bubble up into something bigger that's more problematic later, right?

00:34:32.780 --> 00:34:36.360
Like, we don't want to normalize these ideas as kind of something that's passing

00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:41.300
or a joke when they have real, like, real implications on real people.

00:34:42.020 --> 00:34:44.460
And especially as we think about our aging situation.

00:34:45.243 --> 00:34:50.323
Yeah, the idea of fighting, you know, technology is it's so difficult,

00:34:50.323 --> 00:34:55.623
I think, because, you know, so many parents are, you know, two parent households

00:34:55.623 --> 00:34:59.463
and everybody's, you know, who's working and traveling and doing.

00:34:59.463 --> 00:35:05.303
And and so, you know, some of it is so automatic and sometimes I don't know

00:35:05.303 --> 00:35:10.923
that people realize like how much of an impact it can have before it's too late.

00:35:11.403 --> 00:35:15.443
And, you know, and where that crosses over and how that, you know,

00:35:15.543 --> 00:35:18.843
affects affects them. And I mean, I always like oversimplify it.

00:35:18.923 --> 00:35:24.503
Like to me, like if you can't take your child out to a restaurant without handing

00:35:24.503 --> 00:35:30.323
them a device, like we've done, we've like, we've all done something wrong. Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:30.643 --> 00:35:33.683
Well, I mean, the reality is there are restaurants that have built one of their

00:35:33.683 --> 00:35:36.503
experiences on providing you a device when you come out to eat.

00:35:36.583 --> 00:35:37.423
Like literally see they're sitting

00:35:37.423 --> 00:35:40.363
there or it's like they make it available to you. Like it's just a.

00:35:41.803 --> 00:35:46.823
Old man shakes fist at cloud. Well, I mean, so I think, you know,

00:35:46.923 --> 00:35:49.563
as a parent, as we're thinking about, like, you know, for the folks listening

00:35:49.563 --> 00:35:51.223
in, what are things that you can do, right?

00:35:51.223 --> 00:35:55.143
The reality is technology is a part of the way that we eat, and some of our

00:35:55.143 --> 00:35:58.043
families are like, I don't have time, we can just order it, and it comes to us.

00:35:58.183 --> 00:36:02.183
It's the way that we travel in many ways where, you know, I can call a car.

00:36:02.303 --> 00:36:04.183
Like, I was always told never to get in a car with a stranger,

00:36:04.223 --> 00:36:07.363
but now there's an app for that, and it gets you to where it needs to go, right?

00:36:08.023 --> 00:36:11.983
So it's a part of the way that we kind of live. And we need to learn how to

00:36:11.983 --> 00:36:17.443
navigate those spaces and recognize what is a red flag feeling for us in this

00:36:17.443 --> 00:36:20.843
space so that we know that it's like we can't just trust it because it's doing it, right?

00:36:20.863 --> 00:36:24.883
How do we trust that real human kind of intuition and that gut?

00:36:25.423 --> 00:36:27.883
And then how do we build on that for like the defining thing?

00:36:27.963 --> 00:36:30.903
What are next steps to do if you feel that something's not going right?

00:36:31.463 --> 00:36:35.943
But then, you know, there is that reality of, so how do we address it?

00:36:35.943 --> 00:36:39.523
Well, what are the spaces that are just kind of, that are the human spaces?

00:36:39.703 --> 00:36:43.783
So like when we sit down to a meal, how can we as parents be consistent with

00:36:43.783 --> 00:36:48.083
like, okay, when we sit down to a meal, all the devices are away.

00:36:48.223 --> 00:36:49.403
This is just a time for us to...

00:36:50.671 --> 00:36:53.071
Have a conversation, just talk about each other's days, whatever.

00:36:53.231 --> 00:36:56.231
But we got to be consistent with it. We can't just do it every now and then,

00:36:56.591 --> 00:36:58.171
right? And so how do you find those sacred spaces?

00:36:58.691 --> 00:37:03.491
Or like when it's time to go to your room, like the devices all stay down here, right?

00:37:03.651 --> 00:37:09.851
And that's for like from high school down to, you know, the youngest ages that

00:37:09.851 --> 00:37:11.611
they might have a personal device, right?

00:37:11.691 --> 00:37:14.851
So these are certain things that we can set precedent on, but we have to be

00:37:14.851 --> 00:37:19.191
willing to not be hypocrites ourselves, right?

00:37:19.311 --> 00:37:21.571
And do the same thing. because they're looking, they're seeing.

00:37:22.111 --> 00:37:24.531
And, you know, that's one of the first things they'll call out,

00:37:24.631 --> 00:37:28.831
well, you don't do it. Well, you spend more time on your, you know, Instagram or Facebook.

00:37:29.571 --> 00:37:32.391
I'm just using Snapchat. Like you're on three different platforms.

00:37:32.611 --> 00:37:33.651
You're always on LinkedIn.

00:37:33.791 --> 00:37:36.731
And I was like, well, you know, the more that we just try and justify it,

00:37:36.851 --> 00:37:39.011
the reality is like, well, this is my, like,

00:37:39.671 --> 00:37:43.331
These are the people I connect with and their resumes aren't in front of me,

00:37:43.431 --> 00:37:45.611
but they have meaning to me. I'm learning from them.

00:37:45.731 --> 00:37:49.831
So it's like, ah, it's going to always be a constant combat.

00:37:50.011 --> 00:37:55.031
I think the other thing is you have to also genuinely be interested in learning

00:37:55.031 --> 00:38:01.011
about why they like to use certain platforms, why they like to spend their time in certain spaces.

00:38:02.211 --> 00:38:06.091
Not for the sake of trying to catch them for doing something wrong but trying

00:38:06.091 --> 00:38:11.651
to really understand why Discord is a valuable space for them.

00:38:11.991 --> 00:38:14.891
What are they able to find that they can find in other places?

00:38:15.011 --> 00:38:16.551
Why do they like playing a certain game?

00:38:16.831 --> 00:38:20.231
To give you a better sense of who they are how they interact and what are the

00:38:20.231 --> 00:38:24.291
things of interest that opens up the space so that when something does go wrong,

00:38:24.851 --> 00:38:26.531
they can come to you and be able

00:38:26.531 --> 00:38:30.651
to say hey, so I ran into this and I need help in how to navigate this.

00:38:31.011 --> 00:38:34.231
Think where we as a parent like so like joe same

00:38:34.231 --> 00:38:37.091
with me it's like if i hear something i'm gonna like react and

00:38:37.091 --> 00:38:40.071
my first reaction is oh we need to get off that or like

00:38:40.071 --> 00:38:44.051
or we need to stop this or you can't be on there anymore and that for them becomes

00:38:44.051 --> 00:38:49.951
an immediate like oh he's not even listening yeah right or i can't say something

00:38:49.951 --> 00:38:53.591
to dad because he's just gonna take it away and this means so much to me for

00:38:53.591 --> 00:38:58.771
something some reason so providing that space to really get to understand like why.

00:38:59.890 --> 00:39:03.370
Why they like to be in certain places and how they, how they like to use it

00:39:03.370 --> 00:39:04.330
is incredibly important.

00:39:05.430 --> 00:39:09.910
As we, as we get to our last little segment here on the, on the episode,

00:39:09.910 --> 00:39:13.150
um, and we've talked about a lot of important stuff and I know,

00:39:13.370 --> 00:39:17.870
you know, AI in the classroom and how it's going to impact us,

00:39:18.430 --> 00:39:20.190
uh, in the next five to 10 years.

00:39:20.770 --> 00:39:23.590
Um, like nobody knows where that moving target's going to go.

00:39:23.710 --> 00:39:26.590
Right. And, and just recently, I, I just think of this as a,

00:39:26.770 --> 00:39:32.710
here, here's what I like recently, uh, And the first lady said,

00:39:32.850 --> 00:39:36.490
like, well, we're going to get taught by robots and tried about this robot that came out.

00:39:36.610 --> 00:39:39.530
And here's here's I want to post about this on social media so bad,

00:39:39.610 --> 00:39:43.870
because like back in 2015, there was a hitchhiking robot that went like across

00:39:43.870 --> 00:39:47.910
it went like across all these different countries.

00:39:48.050 --> 00:39:50.190
It went to Germany and went to Canada and went to the Netherlands.

00:39:50.190 --> 00:39:55.570
And then it wound up in Philadelphia and Philadelphia destroyed it because it

00:39:55.570 --> 00:39:56.730
was like this hitchhiking robot.

00:39:56.870 --> 00:39:59.490
Right. And that's what I think is going to happen when the robot gets to middle

00:39:59.490 --> 00:40:02.550
school. I think middle school students are going to destroy.

00:40:03.650 --> 00:40:06.750
I think you're just going to rip it apart. Totally.

00:40:07.030 --> 00:40:10.850
Or they're going to throw so much brain rot speak at it that it's not going

00:40:10.850 --> 00:40:12.590
to know how to synthesize everything.

00:40:12.630 --> 00:40:15.950
And it's just going to overheat and explode. Those are the two things that I

00:40:15.950 --> 00:40:16.490
think is going to happen.

00:40:17.110 --> 00:40:19.070
Do you remember the hitchhiking robot? Do you remember this?

00:40:19.210 --> 00:40:20.090
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:20.730 --> 00:40:23.850
No, I don't. I'll have to look that up. I'll tell you, it gets to Philadelphia.

00:40:23.990 --> 00:40:27.130
And then it was like this happy story. And then it gets to Philadelphia.

00:40:27.350 --> 00:40:30.830
And they cut the head off the robot. And they destroyed it. It wasn't an Eagles fan, right?

00:40:31.250 --> 00:40:35.230
That must be it. I mean, there's one recently about, in this local here,

00:40:35.230 --> 00:40:39.570
a restaurant that had a robot that was, like it's a service robot in the restaurant.

00:40:40.530 --> 00:40:43.030
And something about it was glitching. So they were trying to take it offline.

00:40:43.210 --> 00:40:46.110
But it was so focused on wanting to do the job.

00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:48.570
It kept moving, trying to serve and move things around.

00:40:48.750 --> 00:40:51.470
And they were trying to shut this thing off. They were like lifting it from

00:40:51.470 --> 00:40:56.370
its collar, trying to like, but it was so focused on like, I need to serve. I need to serve.

00:40:56.630 --> 00:41:00.690
I was like, oh my goodness. And again, I mean, I think about that and I'm like,

00:41:00.770 --> 00:41:03.050
okay, that's that, that I don't see happening. Right.

00:41:04.090 --> 00:41:06.990
But what, what is that moving target going to look like for us?

00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:09.770
Like what is, what are some of the things that you think teachers might want

00:41:09.770 --> 00:41:16.070
to look into or be aware of as we move into the next five or 10 years in the, in a, in the classroom?

00:41:16.850 --> 00:41:20.110
I think it's just kind of knowing at least right now where we're at.

00:41:20.110 --> 00:41:24.110
So we know that there is a major AI usage gap between parents and kids.

00:41:24.230 --> 00:41:27.750
More than two-thirds of kids and teens use AI regularly, compared to under half

00:41:27.750 --> 00:41:31.170
of parents that are just kind of navigating what this space is.

00:41:31.310 --> 00:41:35.230
We know that kids and parents often have different perspectives on AI and education.

00:41:35.710 --> 00:41:39.130
Fifty-eight percent of kids and teens are actually more likely to see AI as

00:41:39.130 --> 00:41:39.930
a learning opportunity.

00:41:40.170 --> 00:41:45.810
But 62 percent of kids and teens join the 70 percent of parents that worry about

00:41:45.810 --> 00:41:50.210
the effect on creativity. So there's context around, I'm really excited about

00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:54.650
it, but I am concerned about this potential, what they call offload or experiences.

00:41:54.990 --> 00:41:58.850
How do we create, how do we recognize kind of the, and the one thing that I

00:41:58.850 --> 00:42:01.150
hear a lot about, oh, make sure there's always like a human in the loop,

00:42:01.210 --> 00:42:02.110
and that's what's being taught.

00:42:02.230 --> 00:42:06.530
And I think for even more than just having a human in the loop is,

00:42:06.650 --> 00:42:11.050
is this the most humane purpose? Yeah.

00:42:11.530 --> 00:42:16.030
Is this good for me because it actually helps me to better connect with people?

00:42:16.170 --> 00:42:19.870
Is this good for me because it helps me develop an area that I want to be able

00:42:19.870 --> 00:42:21.310
to use and apply into something?

00:42:21.850 --> 00:42:26.230
Or is it just, am I just using it because I can't, right?

00:42:26.330 --> 00:42:30.170
Because it allows me to, right? And so just because I can check for verification

00:42:30.170 --> 00:42:34.850
that it sounds okay, am I potentially losing something and not developing this myself?

00:42:36.090 --> 00:42:40.970
Am I learning from being able to prompt a question that's giving me more information

00:42:40.970 --> 00:42:42.430
than I thought I was going to get?

00:42:42.570 --> 00:42:45.810
So now I'm actually applying and learning that, and I'm going to now use that

00:42:45.810 --> 00:42:51.030
to create my writing piece because I don't want to lose that creative side of me.

00:42:51.030 --> 00:42:57.630
That is applying AI with a more humane-centric focus versus just being a human

00:42:57.630 --> 00:43:01.890
in the loop, someone who prompts it, checks it, verifies it, and sends it off.

00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:04.350
That's not very human-centric.

00:43:04.610 --> 00:43:06.070
It just means that I was there.

00:43:06.590 --> 00:43:13.990
And so I think there are ways to really think about when we as an educator might use it in our practice.

00:43:14.570 --> 00:43:19.710
Are we using it in a way that still really centers our kids?

00:43:19.710 --> 00:43:24.210
The humanness behind our kids, not just getting through something, right?

00:43:24.450 --> 00:43:27.610
I think a lot of AI for educators is being framed as productivity.

00:43:27.830 --> 00:43:30.770
We can get you more productive and going fast. Well, you know,

00:43:30.770 --> 00:43:35.210
we're also saying that we're not just wanting to raise kids to just be,

00:43:35.330 --> 00:43:39.350
you know, shipped into, you know, working like on a line in a factory.

00:43:39.510 --> 00:43:43.870
We want kids to be able to do that and also be able to be creative and create

00:43:43.870 --> 00:43:48.330
their own businesses that might, you know, like look at how they bring in these

00:43:48.330 --> 00:43:54.350
systems. And also, I think it's just recognizing how we apply it in is one thing.

00:43:54.690 --> 00:43:57.470
And then as we think about how do kids actually use in the classroom,

00:43:57.710 --> 00:44:00.990
I think that's where we really have to have really hard conversations.

00:44:01.170 --> 00:44:05.110
Like when, where, how might we actually want to use it in certain spaces?

00:44:05.110 --> 00:44:07.310
Because a lot of what it's doing is...

00:44:08.497 --> 00:44:11.357
Our needed friction areas of development that we don't want to lose.

00:44:11.657 --> 00:44:15.297
We want our kids to struggle through how to write. We want our kids to struggle

00:44:15.297 --> 00:44:21.717
through not getting the hand right in a drawing, so they can keep practicing that skill, right?

00:44:23.017 --> 00:44:27.417
Where do we build those intentions in so that they don't just,

00:44:27.637 --> 00:44:32.357
like, you know, in the sense of, I memorized two phone numbers versus I used to know 50.

00:44:33.457 --> 00:44:38.397
That's part of building in purposeful friction in learning.

00:44:38.777 --> 00:44:44.157
And that is counter to this idea of cognitive offload, which is the thing that we hear a lot.

00:44:44.597 --> 00:44:47.797
Like, oh, AI is going to take away a lot of that.

00:44:48.057 --> 00:44:51.677
It's going to offload that cognitive development. How do we think about the

00:44:51.677 --> 00:44:56.037
opposite side of what is the need of friction building that we want to bring

00:44:56.037 --> 00:45:00.337
in to these spaces and this learning with our children and then what are things

00:45:00.337 --> 00:45:01.917
that are very much just, um.

00:45:03.357 --> 00:45:07.417
Uh, processes that we want to fast track so that we can get to the real, uh,

00:45:08.371 --> 00:45:13.791
Yeah, I do some online tutoring and there's one young man that I work with who's

00:45:13.791 --> 00:45:18.791
at a private school and they use the chat GPT browser and he's logged in through

00:45:18.791 --> 00:45:22.651
his school account and they could see what he searches and look at all that stuff, right?

00:45:22.731 --> 00:45:26.151
But he uses it so effectively sometimes where I'll watch him and have him show

00:45:26.151 --> 00:45:28.691
me how to do stuff. Like you have to make a Quizlet set for something.

00:45:29.351 --> 00:45:33.711
And he said, take this data, put it in Quizlet set form and give it to me in

00:45:33.711 --> 00:45:37.851
an exportable spreadsheet so that I can import it into Quizlet.

00:45:37.851 --> 00:45:38.831
And it was bang, bang, bang.

00:45:38.971 --> 00:45:42.791
So instead of typing and putting it in, he had it exported in a spreadsheet

00:45:42.791 --> 00:45:47.631
and then put it into Quizlet and then use that to study and review his terms

00:45:47.631 --> 00:45:50.971
for his biology class. I don't think most kids are going to use it that way.

00:45:51.171 --> 00:45:57.251
I think a lot of them are, write my paper for me and we need to like get away

00:45:57.251 --> 00:46:00.791
from, get them away from that because that's where they're losing that,

00:46:00.891 --> 00:46:02.171
that cognitive ability.

00:46:02.651 --> 00:46:07.091
Such a great line, purposeful friction in learning. Yeah.

00:46:07.851 --> 00:46:14.231
Because that really does, what I hear from teachers, that's missing from the kids all the time.

00:46:14.471 --> 00:46:18.911
Yeah, right. The idea, that idea of like, you got to like, there's got to be

00:46:18.911 --> 00:46:23.691
some, some struggle in order for there to be some kind of learning involved. That's right.

00:46:24.071 --> 00:46:27.251
And that struggle has value. Yes, it does. Yeah. Right.

00:46:27.631 --> 00:46:32.791
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I went, I went old school in the last month because

00:46:32.791 --> 00:46:36.411
we were doing something on a, on a map and then the kids couldn't do stuff with

00:46:36.411 --> 00:46:37.751
the United States. I was like, you know what?

00:46:37.851 --> 00:46:40.691
We're doing two weeks, United States map test.

00:46:40.911 --> 00:46:45.391
We're going to do numbered map, piece of paper, fold it in half, number one to 50.

00:46:45.611 --> 00:46:47.351
And you got to spell them all correctly. And they were like,

00:46:47.391 --> 00:46:51.531
everybody's freaking out, you know, uh, and we did it.

00:46:51.671 --> 00:46:55.911
And you, what was amazing to me was the kids who did well on it were like,

00:46:56.111 --> 00:47:00.371
I put so much time into studying and went over this map after map,

00:47:00.431 --> 00:47:02.891
after map, after map, and just kept doing it until I got it right.

00:47:03.546 --> 00:47:06.706
And then they got a good grade on it. And they were like, I'm so glad I did

00:47:06.706 --> 00:47:07.586
this and accomplished it.

00:47:07.746 --> 00:47:13.726
Like, it was so, like, it's so mundane and small, but that's the point. Like, they're not like.

00:47:14.266 --> 00:47:17.906
Well, they also have to feel the success of things as well. That's right. That's success.

00:47:18.066 --> 00:47:22.526
The struggle leads to success. And then you feel that sense of self-pride that's

00:47:22.526 --> 00:47:25.706
so important that you don't get if you're just copying something from.

00:47:26.366 --> 00:47:30.066
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because the reality is they're not, they're not in that mindset.

00:47:30.106 --> 00:47:34.446
Right. where it's like, unless we provide that experience for them where.

00:47:35.146 --> 00:47:39.086
Wow, that struggle led to something that I'm really proud of.

00:47:39.206 --> 00:47:45.866
And that makes me feel really good versus the, I don't connect to what I'm being asked to do.

00:47:46.166 --> 00:47:49.926
So I'm just going to get it done and then move on to something else.

00:47:52.266 --> 00:47:56.306
And there's no value in that outside of the short term of I just got it done

00:47:56.306 --> 00:48:01.926
and I'm done with it, right? And so how do we build in more of those purposeful

00:48:01.926 --> 00:48:07.126
experiences in the instruction and the learning, you know, for kids?

00:48:07.786 --> 00:48:10.646
I know, I mean, the reality is we're still contending with the fact that,

00:48:10.706 --> 00:48:12.926
okay, we've got a certain amount of information that we got to get done at a

00:48:12.926 --> 00:48:14.586
certain amount of time because we got to go through testing.

00:48:14.726 --> 00:48:17.966
So there's that whole side of it. Yes. Right?

00:48:18.606 --> 00:48:24.586
And that's a whole other bigger conversation. But when it comes down to how

00:48:24.586 --> 00:48:29.806
do we then apply these real important skills with all this emerging technology

00:48:29.806 --> 00:48:33.026
that's now available and accessible for the most part,

00:48:33.166 --> 00:48:39.546
but how are we priming our kids to be able to navigate it so that they're getting

00:48:39.546 --> 00:48:43.446
the most of it and getting the best of it and kind of letting the slop go?

00:48:44.056 --> 00:48:47.416
Slop away. I mean, I think what was the most recent one?

00:48:47.556 --> 00:48:50.316
I think they were looking at, like, internet activity in the last year,

00:48:50.376 --> 00:48:55.476
last year and a half, was 51% like bots and 49% human.

00:48:55.956 --> 00:49:02.576
So there's more, there's more activity from AI creating content online than

00:49:02.576 --> 00:49:04.096
there are like real humans.

00:49:04.396 --> 00:49:09.096
And then when we lean on it to like help us solve things, we're actually,

00:49:09.316 --> 00:49:11.816
like, it's slop on top of slop now at this point.

00:49:12.136 --> 00:49:15.596
So, you know, The need to have to review...

00:49:16.761 --> 00:49:21.081
You might end up losing time because you're having to have to weed through all

00:49:21.081 --> 00:49:24.781
the slop of creation just when you could have kind of really done it yourself

00:49:24.781 --> 00:49:27.341
and had the value of recognizing that I did it myself.

00:49:27.601 --> 00:49:30.101
So it's an interesting intersection that we're coming in at.

00:49:31.081 --> 00:49:36.101
So it's important to have these conversations and make sure that our kids know like what to expect.

00:49:36.661 --> 00:49:40.041
Well, look, Murph, that's why we wanted to have you on today for sure.

00:49:41.221 --> 00:49:45.461
Because I think that you bring a lot of value to what we're talking about because

00:49:45.461 --> 00:49:47.981
of the side of the fence that you're on, right? Yeah.

00:49:49.361 --> 00:49:53.761
And plus you straddle both sides with being a parent of a 13 and 15 year old.

00:49:54.121 --> 00:49:56.621
It's one of the reasons why I'm still like, wait, you've been at Common Sense

00:49:56.621 --> 00:50:00.341
how long? I'm like, well, my kid is, my oldest kid is 15. I've been here for 16.

00:50:00.621 --> 00:50:04.641
There's a reason, but these things are right in my pocket.

00:50:04.921 --> 00:50:08.021
If I once said to my daughter, like, well, the research says,

00:50:08.141 --> 00:50:11.661
she'd be like, well actually the research says jay i

00:50:11.661 --> 00:50:14.981
found contending research yeah for sure

00:50:14.981 --> 00:50:18.281
yes oh yeah um so yeah before we hop

00:50:18.281 --> 00:50:21.261
off here uh we do want to remind everyone that

00:50:21.261 --> 00:50:24.501
our season three is brought to you by our presenting sponsor teacher's

00:50:24.501 --> 00:50:27.301
insurance plan make sure you check out their website which is tagged in

00:50:27.301 --> 00:50:30.121
our episode for more information and to

00:50:30.121 --> 00:50:34.141
get a quote teacher's insurance plan auto insurance that brings exclusive educator

00:50:34.141 --> 00:50:38.441
savings and exceptional customer care to new jersey and pennsylvania educational

00:50:38.441 --> 00:50:45.881
employees yes yeah joe i appreciate you both yes merv as always oh it's a pleasure

00:50:45.881 --> 00:50:50.081
thanks for being here happy to be here with you both yeah we'll see everybody next.